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Post by vtchuck on Mar 13, 2015 21:02:15 GMT
I recently acquired a nifty digital hanging scale for my beer brewing hobby, but it is also useful for weighting bikes. So I weighted my
7 road bikes and the results were some what surprising. All my bikes are in the the 24"-25" range, equipped with narrow alloy rims and clinchers
Viscount Aerospace Pro, 24.5", pretty much O.E. except for Mavic rims and 27 x 1" Pasellas 24.5 lbs. Pretty good considering the frame size.
Falcon San Remo '76, 24", DB 531, pretty much full Campy, except for brakes. 23.8 lbs. This one surprised me as it has round section track forks with a massive
looking flat fork crown. I was expecting something north of 25 lbs.
Trek 1400, 24" Aluminum frame and fork, Shimano 105 gruppo. 23.8 lbs. Another surprise.... this one felt lighter when I picked it up.
Romic, 24.5", all DB Champion (Tange #1) custom frame. Campy, Dura-ace, Cinelli. 24.3 lbs. About right considering frame size, but I always thought it was lighter than the Falcon.
Trek 660, 25" all DB True Temper Team, Campy, Shimano, Malliard, Sakae. 23.75 lbs. Pretty good for a big frame.
Ralieigh USA Technium 460, 25", Aluminum triangle, Cro-moly forks & stays, Mid range Japanese components. 24.5 lbs.
LOOK KG56, 25", Lugged Carbon Fiber, Shimano 600 & other Japanese components. 21.75 lbs.... Feels lighter than it actually is
Except for the LOOK, there was less than a 1 lb difference between the others. Really makes me reconsider aluminum vs. steel.
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Post by triitout on Mar 13, 2015 21:51:46 GMT
It really goes to show you how little difference there is in weight. One full water bottle or empty water bottle would be a great equalizer. It has really changed from when we were younger and it was all about the weight. All the hot new carbon fiber tri bikes feature claims on how "aero" their total bike designs are. There's even placement of the brakes and water bottles with wind resistance in mind. People are spending crazy money for this aero advantage now. It's become way more complicated (and probably not even that relevant for a typical mid-pack triathlete) than the old days of a bike just fitting right and feeling light.
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Post by whippet on Mar 14, 2015 21:35:35 GMT
A racing friend of mine is selling his S Works Venge and going back to a standard Allez road bike. Although the Venge is more aero, he reckoned it just wouldn't go around corners.
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Post by whippet on Mar 14, 2015 21:37:43 GMT
PS I keep meaning to weight the bike I ride most = my tourer. I'd think it's around 13.5kg / 30lbs without water bottles.
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bendo
Viscount
Posts: 538 
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Post by bendo on Mar 28, 2015 11:22:43 GMT
Interesting comparison vtchuck. I'm intrigued that you were surprised by the actual weights as opposed to the feel of lifting the bikes by hand. Still it's understandable, we still have this view that steel will be heavier than everything else. I think the new steel tubesets are capable of amazingly low weights. I wouldn't even choose to go with titanium if money were no object. I recently picked up (as in just lifted off the ground, not bought!) a Baum road bike that was made out of Zona or Niobium or something. It had all carbon components, but nevertheless it would have been well <8 kgs. Alex Singer, Jo Routens, Rene Herse et al used to create bikes for the French Technical Trials that were under 8kg: steel frames, front racks, mudguards, dynamo, pump and lights included! The lightest ever, apparently, was the Singer below that weighed 6.8kg. It was made in 1946. These bikes were ridden over rough roads for almost 500km, had to carry about 6kg on the racks, and were checked thoroughly at the end of each stage for mechanical malfunctions. Have we really improved bike technology that much? One of the beauties of these bikes, which were one-offs usually, is the ingenious ways that weight was saved. For instance, below, you can see that the front wheel is spoked radially. But check out the back when: it's also radially spoked, but only on the non-drive side! These guys foreshadowed the wonderful 'drillium' era of British TT bikes in the 60s and 70s.  b |
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Post by vtchuck on Mar 28, 2015 13:00:46 GMT
I've changed some components and it has altered my numbers. I assumed that my Campy NR HF / Super Champion Gentleman / Michelin and Campy NR LF / Rigida 1319 / Pasella Wheelsets
would be pretty much the same weights, but the Rigidas are significantly lighter. Switched them on the Romic and Falcon and the numbers looked more like I expected. I fitted the Falcon with a
531 road fork and saved 1/2 lb...... and hopefully improved the ride.
When I fitted the Trek 1400 with the O.E. wheels, it dropped below 23 lbs...... much more what I expected.
I sold the Raleigh so thats out of the mix.
I might try another wheelset & saddle on the LOOK and see if I can get closer to 21 lbs.
Fun experiments while I wait for the snow to melt.
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Post by triitout on Mar 28, 2015 18:14:18 GMT
I'm slowly watching my GP balloon up in weight. Just put on the Viscount leather saddle that I got from Frank. It's a heffer compared to the modern white saddle that it replaced. Toying with putting an old wooden fruit crate on the front too. I'm afraid to put it on the scale! I feel your pain with the snow! It's actually snowing down here in Long Island today and I'm 3 weeks out from the first triathlon of the season.   Thankfully an indoor pool swim. |
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Post by 54roadie on Mar 28, 2015 20:51:43 GMT
I fitted the Falcon with a 531 road fork and saved 1/2 lb...... and hopefully improved the ride. Fun experiments while I wait for the snow to melt. Sanity saving winter projects, I'm all for them. Mine is coming along nicely. But I wanted to ask - where on Earth did you get a 531 fork for your Falcon? I have a Schwinn Superior from 1981 that differs from Paramounts of that era mostly in that it came with a Tange fork, rather than a Schwinn built 531 model. I've always thought about putting a 531 fork on it, just so the tubing matches the frame, but eBay always seems a little short on supply... Anyway, my Viscount weighed 25.31 lb., (25 lb, 5 oz.), when I bought it. Converts to 11.481 kg. It's an Aerospace Pro, including reflectors, clips & straps and brake extension levers. 20.5" ctc, 22" ctt The completely bare frame weight 1930 gms. 68.08 oz. or 4lb 4oz. for those who care. |
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Post by 54roadie on Mar 28, 2015 21:06:03 GMT
Alex Singer, Jo Routens, Rene Herse et al used to create bikes for the French Technical Trials that were under 8kg: steel frames, front racks, mudguards, dynamo, pump and lights included! The lightest ever, apparently, was the Singer below that weighed 6.8kg. It was made in 1946. These bikes were ridden over rough roads for almost 500km, had to carry about 6kg on the racks, and were checked thoroughly at the end of each stage for mechanical malfunctions. Have we really improved bike technology that much? One of the beauties of these bikes, which were one-offs usually, is the ingenious ways that weight was saved. For instance, below, you can see that the front wheel is spoked radially. But check out the back when: it's also radially spoked, but only on the non-drive side! These guys foreshadowed the wonderful 'drillium' era of British TT bikes in the 60s and 70s. b I've read about these bikes, and I've seen old ads from pre WWII for ultra light Singer and Rene Herse bikes. I've never had the chance to view one in person, or to find out exactly how they got a bike under 8kg with lights, fenders, front rack, solid axles with wingnuts, etc. did they use tubular tires back then? very light gauges of tubing? That Singer is a phenomenal bike. I want to know everything about it. Just sayin'. |
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Post by vtchuck on Mar 29, 2015 21:45:09 GMT
But I wanted to ask - where on Earth did you get a 531 fork for your Falcon? I have a Schwinn Superior from 1981 that differs from Paramounts of that era mostly in that it came with a Tange fork, rather than a Schwinn built 531 model. I've always thought about putting a 531 fork on it, just so the tubing matches the frame, but eBay always seems a little short on supply... I found it on ebay..... actually from a Gitane...all chrome, 531 steerer and decal, cast sloping crown... real pretty. I found it after I had purchased a NOS Tange chrome fork.... potentially for the Falcon or as a backup for my Viscount Death Fork, but I decided to "flip" the Tange.... recovered most of my $ Now I have a flat crown, 531 round section fork as a back-up. In other words.... blind, stupid luck. |
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bendo
Viscount
Posts: 538
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Post by bendo on Mar 30, 2015 22:12:06 GMT
I've read about these bikes, and I've seen old ads from pre WWII for ultra light Singer and Rene Herse bikes. I've never had the chance to view one in person, or to find out exactly how they got a bike under 8kg with lights, fenders, front rack, solid axles with wingnuts, etc. did they use tubular tires back then? very light gauges of tubing? That Singer is a phenomenal bike. I want to know everything about it. Just sayin'. Yes, very light-weight tubing. But also those guys (Singer, Herse, Routens, Barra, Reyhand, et al) were also making a lot of their own components as well: cranksets and rings, brakes, derailleurs, seat post and bar stems, hubs, pedals. Some of this gear, if you can get your hands on it today, is simply phenomenal. Amazing innovators. That Singer's weight was counted without tyres though. After the war, because rubber was scarce, a team's capacity to get their hands on quality tyres had more to do with their black-market connections than their abilities as constructeurs, so the rules allowed the bikes to be weighed without tyres. Being between 38 and 42mm wide, the tyres would have accounted for quite a bit of extra weight. b |
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Post by 54roadie on Mar 31, 2015 18:20:36 GMT
And we've always thought our Viscounts are so light...
Has anyone done a Randonneur set up, and what did the scale say when the build was complete?
Thanks for the link to the French Trials, that was very informative.
Frank
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Post by triitout on Apr 1, 2015 11:22:11 GMT
29.8 lbs for the GP I set up for light touring. All standard Viscount drivetrain and wheel set with racks, fenders, VO bars and stem and now sporting Frank's former leather Viscount saddle. I must add I was pleasantly surprised at how comfortable a broken in Viscount saddle is after hearing the horror stories. Just threw on some proof hide and good to go. Thanks Frank!
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Thankfully an indoor pool swim.