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Post by pauls on Mar 4, 2015 17:16:49 GMT
Following on from this thread: viscountandlambert.boards.net/thread/599/helloI've stripped the frame and given it a coat of paint:  I think that I've solved the bottom bracket issue. I purchased on of these: www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bottom-Bracket-Titanium-Spindle-68-X-119-mm-/111591044783?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=&hash=item19fb5836afThe only problem with the spindle was that the central shoulder was about 8mm too wide. I soon sorted that out in the lathe:  Next job was to fit it:  Sits in there a treat. It's a good interference fit on the housing and spindle, so that's not going anywhere and no need for circlips. Other acquisitions are a Shimano Crane rear dérailleur, some new bars and brake levers. Found some shifters and a 600 front dérailleur in a box of bits at the back of the barn. Next job is to sort some wheels. I bought some Normandy hubs, some new vintage style rims and a wheel truing stand. Wish me luck  |
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Post by velocipete on Mar 4, 2015 19:50:39 GMT
Lucky you to have machining capability,did you need to do any treatment to the axle to make it soft enough to machine?
Did you need to harden it before fitting?
The frame is looking really great, x3 with the wheels,not too difficult,honest!You won't need luck,may be a bit of patience.
Cheers,
Pete.
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Post by pauls on Mar 4, 2015 22:22:51 GMT
The spindle came without any sign of heat treatment post machining, so I assumed that it was in a machinable state. I did a bit of research to established the optimum feed and cutting speeds and depth of cut and dived straight in.
Titanium has about double the tensile strength of the original mild steel spindle, so I saw no reason for any heat treatment before fitting. Do you think that I have missed something?
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Post by velocipete on Mar 5, 2015 8:06:08 GMT
No,I think it'll be fine.The loads imposed by pedaling shouldn't be great enough
to cause problems on titanium.Not like the cheese originals!
Cheers,
Pete.
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bendo
Viscount
Posts: 538 
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Post by bendo on Mar 5, 2015 12:27:27 GMT
Lovely work so far! Looking forward to more pics.
b
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Jem
Viscount
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Posts: 3,389
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Post by Jem on Mar 5, 2015 20:19:15 GMT
Bravo! Very tasty...great work
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Post by whippet on Mar 6, 2015 20:50:19 GMT
A great start. Titaniun - nice!
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Post by Stella on Mar 9, 2015 18:57:55 GMT
Pure envy here. I have a thing for machines. :-) Good work.
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Post by pauls on Mar 9, 2015 19:51:09 GMT
Small update. Cleaned up the forks as best I could. the chrome was too far gone, so I have painted them for now. I may get them re-chromed in the future:  Also cleaned up and test fitted the brakes, stem and chainset. Waiting on a set of decals from the USA before doing too much work on the assembly. I found these in a box at the back of the barn. They must have survived two house moves as they are from the original bike:  Need a good clean but perfectly serviceable. A nice Crane RD off the bay and a set of Maillard/Normandy hubs from an online shop in germany:  I had an issue with the rear hub. It was french threaded and I could not find the right freewheel. In the end I found an english threaded, later but identical, Maillard hub less spindle cheaper than the cost of a freewheel, so rebuilt the hub and will use the original freewheel. Ended up buying new brake levers and handlebars. I found it all a bit of a minefield with all the different sizes of bars, aero or non-aero levers etc. Made a few blunders before deciding on new stuff:  Today I built my first wheel Actually turned out a lot easier than I thought. Set myself up on the kitchen table, TV running how-to videos and using a truing stand I got off ebay. Needs a final tightening as the spokes are not as tight as they should be yet, but all running nice and true, so far.  Onwards and upwards |
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Post by velocipete on Mar 9, 2015 20:11:53 GMT
Well done,I've been building wheels on a wish and a prayer,using the bike for truing.After 50 years
I think I may invest in a truing stand!
Cheers,
Pete.
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Jem
Viscount
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Posts: 3,389
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Post by Jem on Mar 10, 2015 13:06:18 GMT
There was a truing stand at last bike jumble I was at. I think it went for £20-£25 if I remember correctly. Certainly well worth it if you plan on building your own ( maybe pays for itself on the first pair?)
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Post by Stella on Mar 10, 2015 17:21:50 GMT
Looking at the picture with the fork, I'm confused: it looks very much like an alloy fork (death fork). Or maybe it's an optical illusion?
Worked with that truing stand (or similar) before. It's all right for the purpose, although I have the TS2 from Park Tool, which is my truing stand of choice.
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Post by pauls on Mar 10, 2015 17:43:07 GMT
It's definitely a steel fork with "Suntour" dropouts. I assume that it was one of the recall replacements. The Park Tool TS-2 is possibly the best truing stand, but this was a third of the price at £65 including postage. I was quoted £35 to build a wheel including the spokes. I used DT Swiss spokes at £13 a wheel. I'm not going to break even on just these two wheels, but I will on the next pair I have a policy of always doing the job myself even if it involves buying tools. |
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Post by Stella on Mar 14, 2015 22:58:03 GMT
It's definitely a steel fork with "Suntour" dropouts. I assume that it was one of the recall replacements. The Park Tool TS-2 is possibly the best truing stand, but this was a third of the price at £65 including postage. I was quoted £35 to build a wheel including the spokes. I used DT Swiss spokes at £13 a wheel. I'm not going to break even on just these two wheels, but I will on the next pair I have a policy of always doing the job myself even if it involves buying tools. I absolutely agree with your policy. The reason I have the wheel truing stand is that I was embarking on a wheel-building business, but got side-tracked with working a mechanic. Glad I have it, though as I need to build a few wheels soon. :-) |
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bendo
Viscount
Posts: 538
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Post by bendo on Mar 17, 2015 9:32:50 GMT
Yes that's a lovely looking fork. Like Stell, I was curious about it: those sloping shoulders. The replacement forks all had horizontal shoulders. Your forks look a cut about the standard Tange ones that went out back in the day. Your first wheel build—chapeau! as they say. b |
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Post by pauls on Mar 17, 2015 16:59:41 GMT
That's interesting. I just thought that they had made the replacement steel forks to a similar pattern to the original aluminium "death" fork. My forks are definately steel. I've just been out with a magnet to check This is a picture of a Grand Sport sold on ebay recently. Same fork by the look of it. This is more or less how mine would have looked:  The wheels have turned out well. I've used a modern rim and tyre combo but they have a vintage look about them. We are entered in L'Eroica, so have to comply with the max rim depth of 20mm.  My decal have turned up from VeloCals so I should be able to get the build underway soon. |
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Post by sprockit on Mar 18, 2015 21:22:48 GMT
Looks like you have just, very easily, solved one of the greatest and most common problems of owning and riding a threadless-BB Aerospace Viscount, and improved the original design - no circlips to weaken the spindle!! Delightfully simple. Hopefully very many fewer bottom bracket headaches in the future, keeping more Viscounts on the road. Expect a steady stream of enquiries and orders. Well done that man! See you at Eroica. Sprockit |
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Post by triitout on Mar 19, 2015 3:31:49 GMT
Nice job! A few things I'm needing some clarification on regarding the BB assembly. Are you using the 6003 2RS bearings? I'm confused about what part of the central shoulder was too wide and in relation to what is it too wide? It looks like the bearing would sit nicely on the first step (outer sections). Did the central section interfere with the frame tubes coming into the shell?? Were you removing the step on the lathe? I'm curious how the chain line will be since the originals were 121mm but placed in asymmetrically with the longer side on the drive side. I'm wondering if a slightly longer axle, if available, would be better when mounting it symmetrically in the shell creating a slightly longer (and more symmetrical compared to the original) axle length on the non drive side relative to the drive side. HAVE I CONFUSED EVERYONE YET?  ? The paint looks great. Looking forward to seeing the final build and test ride! Cheers, Michael |
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Post by pauls on Mar 19, 2015 9:16:03 GMT
I am using the 6003 2RS bearings which are 10mm wide. The BB shell is 68mm wide, so the central shoulder needs to be 48mm wide to accomodate the bearings within the shell. The spindle came with a central shoulder of nearly 56mm wide:  So simply cut the shoulder back. I'm not too concerned about the chain line. I do have the spindle central in the shell but I could have moved it a couple of mm each way. I think that modern chains are much more accommodating of large angles than they used to be. I can't offer to do this for anyone else as I have too many other projects on. Just happy to share. It is, after all, the simplest machining operation one can do on a lathe. |
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Post by triitout on Mar 19, 2015 10:49:40 GMT
Excellent explanation! Thanks!
Looked at the ebay listing and it appears that they may be able to due customization on their end for those of us lacking that ability. That would be the best option if they can have one set to go already trimmed as Pauls has done.
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Post by pauls on Mar 19, 2015 11:45:43 GMT
I did ask if he could do a special item but he declined and offered me the 119mm * 68mm one at half price He may be more inclined for a bulk order. |
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Post by 54roadie on Mar 20, 2015 5:31:42 GMT
What a great job! And a Ti spindle for - according to eBay - $55 USD / 36.50 GBP sounds like pretty amazing. Doesn't Phil ask over $100 for the same one?
Keep it up. Great pics, too.
Frank
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Post by pauls on Mar 21, 2015 15:14:48 GMT
I've made good progress today  Just cables, bar tape, chain and some pedals to finish her off. In the end, I've bought a new 6 speed freewheel, 14-28 to help with the hills. The dérailleur has the range, just hope the shifter has as well. Saddle wise, my heart and my arse had a arguement. My heart wanted leather but my arse wanted something comfy. My arse won Some of the small parts, particularly the seat post clamp are pretty poor from rust, so I may change them some time in the future. |
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Post by pauls on Mar 27, 2015 14:18:06 GMT
Finished   I've just been round the block and it feels quick, even though it is too big for me as you can see by the saddle height. Great experience and THANKS for the help. Now on to a Motebecane that I've found for the wife. L'Eroica here we come. |
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Post by velocipete on Mar 27, 2015 14:20:56 GMT
Mmmm.Nice! Damn fine job you've done there.
Cheers,
Pete.
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Post by triitout on Mar 27, 2015 17:29:48 GMT
It looks showroom condition! Nice work!
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Post by pauls on Mar 27, 2015 18:15:10 GMT
Thanks. For the record, it weighs 22.8 Lbs or 10.35 kg. 2kg heavier than my Roubaix but not bad for a 40 year old bike. Looking forward to getting some test miles. Just wish the UK weather forecast was a bit better  |
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Jem
Viscount
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Posts: 3,389
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Post by Jem on Mar 27, 2015 20:55:47 GMT
Bravo! Looking great.
If you're riding that one at Eroica, are you joining Team Viscount (even in name, even if not riding with us?)
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bendo
Viscount
Posts: 538
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Post by bendo on Mar 31, 2015 8:10:34 GMT
Beautiful job! So sorry it's not your perfect size, but them's the breaks I suppose when finding old bikes. Those forks come up a treat in white. b
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Post by pauls on Mar 31, 2015 9:53:21 GMT
It's not my size in theory. However, with the saddle set forward it feels comfortable enough. I just have to remember that my manhood is at risk if I put my heels down whilst at rest Took it for a test ride yesterday. Local 12 mile loop with 200m of climbing. It flew along Apart from dropping the chain off the big ring on a clumsy upshift, no major issues. A few adjustments to make but well pleased. Despite being 2kg heavier than my Roubaix, which we are led to believe is significant, it only took a minute or so longer than my best time and conditions were far from ideal. I don't understand the "Team" thing for L'Eroica. Does that make it a bit of a competition? If you are just looking for numbers, then you can add my name. I will be riding with my wife, as long as I get her Motobecane built. |
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