Jem
Viscount
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Posts: 3,389 
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Post by Jem on Nov 14, 2013 20:23:20 GMT
I sometimes read eBay listings of Viscount bikes for sale where the owner doesn’t know much about the bike in front of them, has done a 10 minute search on Google,has found the long CTC thread or one or two of the great Blogs about Viscount bikes and then jumped to the conclusion that it is worth loads of money.
This seems reasonable enough bearing in mind the enthusiasm and passion some of us show for Viscount- we do a great selling job! Also, because most of the frames are English made with 30 + years ‘vintage’ in them, with a quite obviously high quality build , it again seems fair enough to place a decent monetary price on them...doesn’t it?
However, I am going to burst that bubble and have a stab at what I actually believe is the ‘market value’ of a Viscount today based wholly on my gut instinct and what I have observed on eBay, Gumtree and the classifieds on the bike forums.
My caveat is that if a person ,or even worse , two people want the same bike badly enough then the price might just go well over the top ,and these guesstimations don’t work.
This also may be the case with certain frame sizes which only come up now and again.
My guess is that more 23” were made therefore there are more about anyway?
My other caveat is that in most cases, some Viscount with higher ends components would fetch significantly more in parts than as whole bikes...but that is another story.
So, lower end of the scale = if the seller lives in some remote part of the country and collector must pick up and/or the bike looks very shoddy, has little or very few original components or photo’s are poor.
Higher end = all or mostly original, good/ok paintwork and cheap delivery or lives in/near large City for collection.
Almost without exception the Mixte sells for less but is essentially the same components and would make a fine bike for a man anyway in my opinion. This rule holds true for very well made vintage watches where the mans version goes for much higher price than women’s - leading to the quite obvious generalised conclusion that men collect things and battle over rarity and women don’t.
And finally - even though in the US there seems to be more of them, many sellers put a high buy it now price on them and is a totally different market- therefore I won’t attempt to put any $US prices on these.(although add £100 on top of these and you're nor far off)
So here goes
Viscount Aerospace Pro - £40 to £165
Viscount Sebring £30 to £130
Viscount Aerospace Sport £40 to £130
Viscount Tony Doyle £25 to £90
Viscount Sprint £25 to £85
Viscount 18AX £30 to £80
Viscount GP £60 to £170 (exception for the Mojave Special or any 'mint' unridden bike- they could break records for price if someone wanted it badly enough)
Viscount Gran Touring £40 to £80
Viscount Indy 500 £30 to £80 (I paid a bit more due to sentimental reasons...)
Viscount Sebring £30 to £110
Viscount Spacemaster/Folders £40-£65
Viscount Grand Prix £15 - £55
Viscount 600EX £90 to £220
Lambert gold plated - Priceless?
Viscount chromed Supabike - Priceless?
My experiences - I have paid less than £20 for my Grand Prix, and less than £40 for a Sebring Mixte , £65 for my ‘Sport ; £45 for one of my 18AX’s (which as a bonus had a Carradice saddle bag on which alone would have fetched £30) and then less than £50 for a ‘Pro and then £70 odd for a totally original 18AX and then silly money of £90 for an Indy which on reflection was an emotional buy to regain my youth.
It all seems rather low doesn’t it?
This is not meant to denigrate the quality or desirability of Viscount - merely to point out the reality as I see.
And finally, apologies to those who think it totally crass to make a post predominantly about cash. But it’s not....it's actually all about the bike!
EDIT- When you think about how much these bikes cost new, these are great prices for a great bike today. They cost less than they did 30 years ago new!
FURTHER EDIT - Quite happy for people to tell me I'm completely wrong on these
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Post by whippet on Nov 15, 2013 22:36:12 GMT
Good news for those hoping to add to their stables. :-)
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Post by Stella on Nov 15, 2013 23:54:43 GMT
I paid an overpriced 125 for Shawn. Overpriced mainly because the bike was in dire condition with the BB shot, seat post torn and stuck, and the tires 700c, chain was pretty worn, too and a spoke broke a few weeks later.
But I had not a clue. That guy wanted 135 and I haggled.
For the blue Sport I paid 31 (21.50 courier). Bike was in good condition, just needed a few cables replaced, and some tweaks to be rideable. It needs some work, though.
The Pro cost 60, plus 21.50 courier. 100% original, as the blue bike was, good to ride after changing the tire and changing cables, but it'll be a restoration project.
All three bikes are priceless to me and I would not sell them, no matter how much you offer me.
I, too, think, it's ridiculous what price tag people put on the bikes offered on eBay. Some are so tattered, you should get paid to take them off their owners. And, yes, I agree, we are helping those sellers a lot to advertise their bikes. On one hand, we're rising awareness, showing people what a little gem they're bidding on, on the other hand, we're making it more difficult for ourselves. The bargain Viscount bikes won't be there for long anymore, I feel. The prices are going up, because of us. Or maybe I'm just too worried. lol
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Post by triitout on Nov 16, 2013 15:29:03 GMT
I think the key is to find a Viscount that you really want and can make good use of. Once you've got some miles on and some time in from when you paid the bill, you forget about how much it cost. You just enjoy it. It gets increasingly difficult to find the right size/condition that can become something good. That being said, I agree with you that some people are just out of touch with reality for what is junk. I also feel that what I now own as a collection is priceless! I've spent more rebuilding lesser bikes than I did on the Mojave!
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Post by whippet on Nov 16, 2013 16:52:43 GMT
Yeah, needless to say, I spent more with Bustaste on my Sport than is sensible. Well worth it for me though as brings back memories of the Viscount I had in the 70's that was cruelly stolen.
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Post by triitout on Nov 17, 2013 3:25:03 GMT
When I look at what others spend on dinners out, Starbucks, new car payments, etc, etc, this is a HEALTHY indulgence. It gives satisfaction in so many ways (spiritual and physical) to keep something from the past that really is GOOD and not to mention keeps you in shape. I know that compared to what I've spent in the past for my carbon triathlon bikes, these are a HUGE bargain. Damm, the entry fee for an Ironman 70.3 tri is more than a pricey top of the line Viscount, and its over the same day. I'm loving the Mojave GP and quickly forgetting about what I spent. This ain't the 70's and there are less and less good ones to be found so if you find a winner grab it!
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Post by whippet on Nov 17, 2013 8:19:17 GMT
True, I entered a few motorcycle races a few years ago, not much change from £1,000 for the weekend. Cycling is definitely cheaper and more conducive to a longer life.
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Jem
Viscount
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Posts: 3,389
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Post by Jem on Nov 17, 2013 21:38:51 GMT
A classic lime green 600 just came up on eBay - he says, and I quote, "they have quite a following on the web" and then starts auction at £200... Oh no, maybe he had a look here at the prices - I wish I'd said " no more than £20 for the 600" haha  |
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Post by Stella on Nov 18, 2013 13:52:21 GMT
No he said 'they have quote a following'. hahaha.
I just came to report this on here, too. 200 for that bike is totally overpriced. 60, maybe 80 tops. My guess is the rims are 700c. Not original. Pfff. Deluded. I tell you, it's all because of Busaste. It's his fault. There!
John: meant to say: lovely picture. :-)
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Post by utedeej on Nov 18, 2013 21:45:54 GMT
Just remember, that its a much cheaper passion/hobby than restoring cars. That's what i keep telling my wife anyway.
Oh no, i've just seen priceless for my bike! Don't anybody let my wife see this forum:) But seriously, I love all of my different bikes, some i give to friends, others i sell and some have just been hanging around for too long because i can't work out what to do with them. For me, the fun is in the fixing up, riding and talking about them - all combined. I don't think there are any that i must keep forever. Of course some i have sold for a profit also, it keeps the whole thing interesting and ticking over.
Prices are such a personal thing also. I've got a pretty small limit on what i usually pay for a bike, but if someone is willing to pay more - good luck to them and the seller i say. Similarly, if someone has a bonkers price on something, good luck to them, it'll either sell or not sell.
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Jem
Viscount
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Posts: 3,389
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Post by Jem on Nov 19, 2013 6:37:53 GMT
No he said 'they have quote a following'. hahaha. I just came to report this on here, too. 200 for that bike is totally overpriced. 60, maybe 80 tops. My guess is the rims are 700c. Not original. Pfff. Deluded. I tell you, it's all because of Busaste. It's his fault. There! John: meant to say: lovely picture. :-) If it were the right size frame,nearby and I had spare cash (which I don't), then I'd go to £125 |
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Post by Stella on Nov 19, 2013 19:15:12 GMT
Same here. Though I wouldn't go to 125, even if I had the cash. To me, the fun is finding little gems like my Pro and the blue Sport. I absolutely understand if someone asks for good money for a completely restored bike, as that costs quite a bit of money to get that done, and the buyer gets a perfect bike, like new. So it's worth paying 600 quit (if one has the money), but a used bike bike that isn't much worth. If it were a Raleigh or Peugeot, you probably wouldn't fork out that money either, would you? I know I wouldn't.
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Jem
Viscount
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Posts: 3,389
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Post by Jem on Nov 19, 2013 19:41:27 GMT
To be honest Stella, I'm a bit of a ghetto biker - I love finding things as cheap as possible; complete bikes to bits and pieces and saddle bags, panniers and lights etc.
The way I view things is that I get great joy and pleasure from buying an all original Viscount Grand Prix for £16 and it being instantly rideable (albeit tatty and in need of some TLC) - but would I get 100 times more pleasure from buying a £1600 bike....the answer is 'no'.
Although I did get immense pleasure from buying a virtually un-ridden mid 80's Koga-Miyata, and that was the most I have ever paid for a bike (£255). However, I sold it within weeks- It was too small and I couldn't get a good set up and it was twitchy and I wasn't as confident on it as my Viscount's. Great in a straight line, but not nice on corners!
If I had a £1000 to spend I'd probably buy something like the Mojave GP, a tidy 600 or unsued 'Pro. Or all of them.
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Post by Stella on Nov 19, 2013 19:50:54 GMT
I'm like you: get things cheap and make them shiny again. It's the pleasure of working on bikes. I wouldn't want to buy a modern super bike for 4k. Nope. Not my style. I love breathing new life into an old machine. I love riding around on my Viscount and people admiring it for all the weird and wonderful components. I have something special and that's what makes me proud. Plus they're a joy to ride. I don't have Viscounts because they're cool, I have them because I once fell in love with a red Viscount bike, not even knowing anything about those bikes ...
If I had 1000, I'd go on a wild shopping trip for parts--NOS and in mint condition. Oh,yes. And if I had 1000 more, I'd get some of the necessary tools to work on my bikes. :-)
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Post by triitout on Nov 20, 2013 1:49:40 GMT
I wish we had more "beater bikes" for sale stateside. We've got places like recycle-a bike and second life bikes (which I referenced as a possibility for you Stella as a role model on the CTC forum) but no Viscounts to be found. We may have more Viscounts for sale here but as you've seen on ebay, sellers aren't anywhere near as generous as in the UK with affordable prices. The few good deals I've seen, I've been beaten to the punch on which always surprised me that I'm not the only one hunting for bargain priced Viscounts. I was surprised the Mojave GP didn't get more offers because in the end, it's costing me less than I put into either my Pro or Kiwi since it essentially all NOS parts. I hope one shows up like that in the UK for you guys so that the shipping isn't an issue. You'd love it.  |
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Jem
Viscount
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Posts: 3,389
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Post by Jem on Nov 21, 2013 21:09:18 GMT
I wish we had more "beater bikes" for sale stateside. We've got places like recycle-a bike and second life bikes (which I referenced as a possibility for you Stella as a role model on the CTC forum) but no Viscounts to be found. We may have more Viscounts for sale here but as you've seen on ebay, sellers aren't anywhere near as generous as in the UK with affordable prices. The few good deals I've seen, I've been beaten to the punch on which always surprised me that I'm not the only one hunting for bargain priced Viscounts. I was surprised the Mojave GP didn't get more offers because in the end, it's costing me less than I put into either my Pro or Kiwi since it essentially all NOS parts. I hope one shows up like that in the UK for you guys so that the shipping isn't an issue. You'd love it. You do seem to have the best examples over there, but we seem to have the 'beaters' at pocket money price. I also think it strange that your Mojave GP didn't get more interest, because as you say, it needed no further outlay. It would be good if the ex-emplyee who posted here (Anthony) came back to the forum and could shed light on the numbers sold of various models and how many in each country. |
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Post by Stella on Nov 24, 2013 13:23:06 GMT
Well, a few more have popped up at ridiculous prices; it seems like the era of bargain snatches are over.
Sad, very sad, methinks.
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Jem
Viscount
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Posts: 3,389
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Post by Jem on Nov 24, 2013 14:58:01 GMT
Well, a few more have popped up at ridiculous prices; it seems like the era of bargain snatches are over. Sad, very sad, methinks. Don't panic Stella! They put them up at ridiculous prices, but do they sell? In the last week on eBay UK we have had a £53 Colorado, and a £55 Sebring. That to me is about right. Not to mention a £24 mixte, a nice white n blue Lambert/Viscount 'Pro for £63 in the previous weeks. This is one of the best times for buying vintage Viscount in my opinion. Lot's about and not a huge number of people bidding on them. All of the above would fetch more as parts than the whole bike. Shimano 600 chainset's and RD's are very desirable (hopefully they'll stay where they belong on the Viscount), but just pointing out the value of the above buys. |
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Post by Stella on Dec 10, 2013 18:09:03 GMT
The Grand Prix went for 36 quid. Unfortunately, the seller didn't want to pack it for courier-pick up. I wanted to bid.
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Jem
Viscount
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Posts: 3,389
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Post by Jem on Dec 10, 2013 19:33:25 GMT
The Grand Prix went for 36 quid. Unfortunately, the seller didn't want to pack it for courier-pick up. I wanted to bid. Yes- I saw that too. Worth every £ but about in keeping with what I was thinking it would go for. |
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Post by Stella on Dec 10, 2013 20:33:55 GMT
I'd like to bid on the gray one, but Pete's gone missing. He offered to get it from that place and he probably could send it for less than 25, as you did. I'm not willing to pay 25 for a frame. Nope.
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