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Post by triitout on Nov 30, 2014 18:59:47 GMT
Riding along at a nice leisurely pace on the GP pourter bar setup when I suddenly felt my right food with the pedal start to slide off the pedal axle. Luckily my balance was spot on today so I get off in the knick of time to find the V cap and bolt holding the pedal to the axle gone. Yikes! I was able to back track a bit and found the wayward parts along the road. Outside needle bearings are gone and I have no clue on the specs or availability for them. Any info? I guess I shouldn't have ignored the squeak. Maybe it's time to put on some MKS Sylvans and be done. I saw LewisG and Goldie have had their issues with the pedals back in May 2013 on the CTC site. More pedal issues than forks. Go figure. Found a nice set of photos of the pedal broken down on another forum. www.schwinnbikeforum.com/index.php?topic=25669.0 |
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Post by velocipete on Nov 30, 2014 20:51:56 GMT
I believe the main problem with this pedal design is eliminating end float on the axle. Careful shimming required to stop friction undoing the securing bolt,result,as you know. MKS pedals are on my Sport and Pro.No problems at all.Can't say if they were original equipment,as I've not had them long,only since 1991.Were does the time go?  Cheers, Pete. |
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Post by triitout on Nov 30, 2014 21:31:59 GMT
Just got a good deal on MKS Sylvan Road pedals with all the Black Friday deals going on so the V pedals will go into the collectible bin. Unlike the Mojave GP, (which I'll keep the V pedals on), this one is a regular rider and I need pedals that stay in one piece! Where does the time go?? Good question but as long as my body holds up and I can keep cycling, time seems to be standing still for me. It's just amazing when I look around and see how much older everyone else got.  |
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Post by Stella on Nov 30, 2014 22:01:27 GMT
Oh, that's just too sad! Didn't even know they had needle bearings! Wow! Viscounts never fail to amaze me. How progressive is that? Now that I own my very first pair of V-pedals I'm a bit scared. Hope they'll stay in one piece, or I'll have to resort to other pedals, too. Quite like the Olimpic ones which I have on my Sport.
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Post by cusqueno on Dec 1, 2014 10:14:33 GMT
Sorry to hear about your pedal mishap. I have used and still do use Lambert and Viscount pedals on my pre-1980 L&V bikes and have (touch wood) not had this problem, even on ones I have used without caps (for fear of losing them). Admittedly, holding everything together with just a screw - no lock nut - doesn't seem that great an idea. The photos you found of a disassembled pedal are excellent and very helpful, but perhaps so close-up one doesn't appreciate how tiny the needles are! I am nervous of losing any when I disassemble to re-grease.
I have seen instructions in a Viscount dealer manual of how to shim up the pedals to reduce end-float, but I haven't found it to be too annoying a problem.
I have a couple of Viscount pedals that have seen better days (the alloy bits at the outboard ends broken) and I could sacrifice one and send a set of needles to you (interesting customs declaration?) or both pedals to keep the set together, although obviously the postage would be a lot more.
I also have several sets of the Olimpic [sic] 64 pedals used a lot as OEM on later Viscounts. I believe they were made by Zeus and are good, reliable pedals. If anyone is interested, PM me. They wouldn't be expensive, although capless and in need of servicing. (Not quite as difficult to get caps to fit as for Viscount pedals. MKS alloy ones can be made to with a bit of encouragement)
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Post by triitout on Dec 1, 2014 12:16:25 GMT
Thanks John for the offer. I've got a spare (much older) set on the R/W GP in the shed so I'm good there. Does the Viscount manual spec the needle bearings? I'd order some and give it a go. They are very tiny. I did find one loose one floating around. Interestingly enough, when I re-assembled the pedal and went for a ride without the outer needle bearings, it was just fine after a bit of squeaking. It's just a small allen screw head bolt holding the whole thing together for those who haven't looked under the V cap. These pedals were very new with probably only several hundred miles on them. Probably were not tightened properly at the factory.
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Post by vtchuck on Dec 2, 2014 13:22:52 GMT
I have seen instructions in a Viscount dealer manual of how to shim up the pedals to reduce end-float, but I haven't found it to be too annoying a problem. Do you have a link to that manual? Or perhaps you could post a summary? After reading this, I will likely put a drop of loctite (blue) on the allen bolt as a pre-emptive measure. |
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Post by cusqueno on Dec 2, 2014 23:03:03 GMT
flic.kr/p/pkg5AiFrom a Viscount dealers' manual sold on eBay a year or so ago. Too expensive for me. Fortunately the seller included this photo.
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Post by vtchuck on Dec 3, 2014 17:28:02 GMT
From a Viscount dealers' manual sold on eBay a year or so ago. Fortunately the seller included this photo. Yikes..... I envision needle bearings everywhere if I tried that... guess I'll live with the "slop" or replace with some MKS quills. |
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Post by velocipete on Dec 3, 2014 19:14:06 GMT
Possible way to do it.Stand the end of the pedal shaft on an old speaker magnet,after loosening off all the tight bolts.
Carefully remove the retaining bolt,spacer and pin.Remove alloy outer,again VERY carefully.Hopefully all the needle
bearings will still be attached to the pedal shaft!Clean out the pedal bearing area,regrease,slide back over the pedal
shaft,refit spacer,pin and bolt.
With any kind of luck,the magnetic field should have stopped the little buggers from scarpering! I wasn't in Faraday
house at Grammar school for nowt!
Hope this may help all who are afraid of small bits.
Cheers,
Pete.
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Post by lewisg on May 20, 2015 5:57:28 GMT
My pedal related mishap was the 'shaft' of a Lyotard shearing off at the top of the threads so unrelated except - I shouldn't have ignored the odd sound/feeling. Getting off and walking to the nearby lbs would have been preferable to the sound/feeling of head Vs pavement and stroll back from hospital! Glad you stayed upright!
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Post by 54roadie on May 20, 2015 6:52:44 GMT
Michael, I don't know if you ever managed to get that straightened out, but I'm sure that if you take the pedal and bearings to your local Motion Industries, BDI, Grainger, McMaster Carr, etc., someone behind the counter will be able to identify those needles and source replacements. They look to be an off-the-shelf metric needle bearing. The store will want to sell you a complete assembly, bearings and the outer race. It shouldn't be too expensive, and will ensure that you get the correct number of brand new needles. When assembled and lubed, (Use a fairly heavy grease like a white lithium) there will be a gap between the first and last needle that's about one needle wide. Do not fill it with another needle. They may also be able to source those shim washers to take up any slack, and yes, finish the whole thing off by thoroughly cleaning the axle, bolt hole and bolt, let dry, then use a drop or two of blue thread lock - I prefer Vibra Tite to Lock Tite, but they are all almost exactly the same.
As I look at the overall design of that pedal, it's seems obvious to me that good looks, strength, and ease of manufacturing were the driving forces. It looks like the best pedals of the day, the cast body came out of the mold in one piece, eliminating the need to stamp, bend and rivet the cage to the body separately. A straight axle would be easier to make than the tapered ones, and the needle bearing assemblies were probably easy to insert while the casting was still warm - either from the mold or following further finishing. In the factory, I'd think a rather simple jig and press would get the job done quickly. Then inserting the axle and putting in the pin, cap washer and bolt was a piece of cake compared to a taper axle set up with loose balls, separate adjusting nut, lock washer and lock nut that everyone else used.
Today when I see roller / needle bearings on a bicycle I always think of Viscount. When the marketing spins on about how much more load it takes, greater surface area, etc., I know that these things are true, but I'm always looking at the design to see where it saved time and labor costs. Just one more way, I think, that our favorite brand was so far ahead of it's time.
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Post by triitout on May 20, 2015 11:52:37 GMT
My pedal related mishap was the 'shaft' of a Lyotard shearing off at the top of the threads so unrelated except - I shouldn't have ignored the odd sound/feeling. Getting off and walking to the nearby lbs would have been preferable to the sound/feeling of head Vs pavement and stroll back from hospital! Glad you stayed upright! I guess the motto is, anything can go at any time. Glad it wasn't worse! Wow, great info Frank. Never did sort it out. It's in a box with spare Viscount parts waiting in line for my attention. Great post, and yes I do need to get it sorted out properly! I'm using an MKS Sylvan for now. I'll keep you posted. Cheers, Michael |
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Post by 54roadie on May 21, 2015 2:14:08 GMT
NSK B-76 It's actually an inch series bearing (go figure...) but the bearing companies use the metric conversions. That part number should also work for SKF, NTN, Torrington, and only God knows what other bearing brands. It's the drawn cage, full complement, needle bearing set up used in the Viscount pedals. If you have pedals that need the little bearings, one of these B-76's should set you up properly. I saw one online for under $8, USD. Bore diameter = 11.12 mm OD = 15.875 mm Width = 9.52 mm The bearing companies generally refer to these dimensions as Fw, D and C respectively. You'll see that in the catalog. God that took a long time to figure out. You can find it here: NSK Catalog go to page B-67But none of us, nor any LBS will have the tooling to replace the outer cage. That requires special tools and jigs, so if somehow, someone wrecks the outer race (rather hard to do, fortunately) it will take the efforts of a specialized machine shop to do the restoration. Which would be far more expensive than a pair of MKS, at least around here. Now that the frustration part is over, I'm happy. Good luck everyone! Frank |
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