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Post by dracco on Aug 25, 2014 16:24:09 GMT
Here’s an update on the restoration of my (possibly) Viscount Corsair Wayfarer (thanks Cusqueno) - see my introductory posts in the “lurkers” thread. I’m hoping that some of you – more mechanically savvy than myself – will be able to throw in some tips. First of all, I’m dismantling everything to give all the bits and pieces a really good clean. – Like I said, this has been gathering dust for the last 20-odd years, and none of the moving parts are moving that well. I started with the wheels, removing the patina of ages from the rims and spokes with steel wool. (Note: a clothes-peg makes a very handy tool for holding steel wool – especially when polishing up the spokes). This also gratified my urge to make a start, without doing anything terminally wrong. To my relatively untutored eye, the rear sprockets (a 6-speed cassette with the rather eccentric progression of 13-15-17-20-24-28) looked like they were suffering from tooth decay, and would need changing. But with what? - It turns out that they’re on a Shimano Uniglide freehub – a fitting with 9 splines, that is now obsolete. So most likely, it’ll be impossible to get replacement sprockets. Additionally, it wasn’t straightforward to get the sprockets off this, since they’re all held in place by the smallest one, which screws onto the freehub. – Apparently you need to get two chainwhips which you work in opposite directions, holding the largest sprocket with one and the smallest with the other. Two chainwhips – I ask you! Who has TWO chainwhips?? (Alright, you all do). Confronted with this, I headed for my local bike shop (we’re quite well-endowed with these in this part of the world) where a very helpful young man (HYM) loosened off the sprockets for me.....then took a long look at the hub, sucked his teeth and offered to sell me two new wheels at 100 quid a pop. Here’s the hub, with the sprockets removed.  Now, I mentioned in my opening post that it’s likely that the frame will turn out to be too large for my short legs, so I wasn’t that keen on investing that sort of cash in something that might not be that easy for me to ride. The alternative, then is to try (for the moment) to do my best with what I’ve got. – The HYM then pointed out that the sprockets didn’t seem to be as badly worn as all that (they haven’t been doing anything for the last 20-odd years, remember), and that I could try replacing the bearings to get to see if that gets rid of the play in the hub, and I could clean up the sprockets and remount them other-side-out. – After that failed, I could then come back and shell out for 2 new wheels. So, this is what I’m doing. This is what the sprockets currently look like – any comments will be gratefully received.  I'll post some updates on my progress at intervals (with more photos, obviously!) |
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Post by cusqueno on Aug 25, 2014 18:06:26 GMT
Uniglide sprockets and complete cassettes are obtainable and hyperglide cogs will fit, although you need the final screwed uniglide cog to hold everything in place.
See eBay. Personally, if the hubs rotate smoothly, or can be made to do so, I wouldn't pay £100 a piece for new wheels. A bonus is that uniglide cogs are symmetric and you can get twice the life from them by turning them over.
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Post by dracco on Sept 3, 2014 13:53:25 GMT
Lately, I’ve been having a look at my bottom bracket. It doesn’t look too healthy, with the flange on the left-hand side having been sheared off over half its circumference. It also looks like something that won’t be easy to replace. I’ve identified this as a Shimano Selecta bottom bracket: If you read my first post, you may recall that this bike had two different cranks – a Selecta crank on the left side and an Adamas AX crank and chainset on the right. So, it looks like the original crankset may have been Selecta cranks plus Selecta bottom bracket. Needless to say, the Selecta BB assemblies are long since obsolete, and I’m faced with having to replace this with something (i) more current and (ii) easy to service. It seems to me that if I replace this with a modern BB, I’ll have to replace the cranks, since they’re unlikely to fit on anything else. Any suggestions? – And what’s the best way to extract the rest of the BB assembly from the BB housing? This is what it looks like after dismantling: |
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Post by cusqueno on Sept 4, 2014 8:18:36 GMT
I've never seen one of these close to, so I'm in the dark as well, but despite the odd appearance, is it possible to remove the Selecta/Adamas bottom bracket entirely to leave a standard threaded bb shell? In which case, you could fit almost any bits you like. But you're right, the cranks would need to be replaced as well. Alternatively, Selecta and Adamas parts do come up on eBay, including new old stock (NOS) ones. Prices vary a lot, presumably because people are unsure how much they are worth, so it might be worth waiting for a cheap one to come along. Or post on another cycling forum, such as CTC, Retrobike or LFSSG (or whatever it is) in the 'wanted' section.
My inclination would be to replace if possible. The Selecta/Adamas system was an interesting development, but a dead end not pursued by Shimano. As you say,it might be best to have something for which a wide range of parts is available, to make future servicing more straightforward.
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Post by dracco on Sept 4, 2014 11:13:33 GMT
"...is it possible to remove the Selecta/Adamas bottom bracket entirely to leave a standard threaded bb shell?" I think so: at least I hope so. Exactly how to do this is another matter. I read a report by someone on another forum that a pipe-wrench might do the job. It's just a question of how much purchase I can get on the fractured flange. - I'd want to get rid of this, in any case, since it provides an obvious point of ingress for all manner of grit and crud. "My inclination would be to replace if possible." Mine too! "The Selecta/Adamas system was an interesting development, but a dead end not pursued by Shimano. As you say,it might be best to have something for which a wide range of parts is available, to make future servicing more straightforward." |
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Post by cusqueno on Sept 5, 2014 21:52:28 GMT
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Post by dracco on Sept 8, 2014 9:42:03 GMT
Thanks Cusqueno. The HYM at my local bike shop was able to remove the Selecta Bottom Bracket cups with ease, with an old, compatible Shimano BB removal tool (the BB housing has a standard thread, and should accommodate pretty much anything I choose to put in, in its place). - Looking at the photos accompanying the crank set on eBay, it's not clear whether or not this includes the BB cups - nor what state these are in. Since one of mine is damaged, allowing grit to enter, I don't see much point in fitting anything onto the existing spindle, or that accompanying this set (and my understanding is that the Adamas cranks will only fit on the Selecta spindle due to its unique spline pattern) but I've posted in a question about these. If these are part of the deal, and in good enough nick, then £45 would be cheaper than a new BB and modern crankset.
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Post by dracco on Sept 26, 2014 11:27:01 GMT
I took my stripped-down frame and front fork to be powder-coated this week. After this it will no longer be the gold-ish twin of simonb's Viscount.
My first instinct was to go for a dramatic Ferrari Red colour: this would resolve the confusion about the uncertain identity of this particular model - it would become the Viscount Testarossa. (Or maybe for aficionados of Hayao Miyazake films, "Forko Rosso").
As it was, this colour wasn't on the available colour pallette, so I settled on my second choice: a very striking blue (so hence forth, the Viscount Azzurro). I'll post a picture when it comes back - watch this space....
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Post by triitout on Sept 26, 2014 12:52:36 GMT
Striking and dramatic is good. That was my idea with the bright "kiwi green" powder coat on my single speed conversion henceforth the Viscount Aerospace Kiwi was born. That blue sounds like a great choice. We're creating a whole new genre of Viscounts.  |
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Post by dracco on Oct 6, 2014 15:25:25 GMT
I picked up my frame & forks from the powder coater last week (Triple-S Powder Coating in Bingley). Here's a quick "before and after" comparison:  Before
After
And here's how the rebuilding is going, so far:  I've still quite a few parts to replace (including new tyres: here the old ones are simply sitting around the wheels to protect the rims). |
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Jem
Viscount
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Posts: 3,389 
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Post by Jem on Oct 6, 2014 20:11:19 GMT
I have never had a frame re-sprayed (if I rule out doing my Trusty Pavemaster myself with spray cans when I was 10 years old)
It looks great Dracco. Did they strip it for you too?
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Post by dracco on Oct 7, 2014 14:32:32 GMT
Yes they did. I delivered the frame and forks and they sand-blasted it and powder-coated it. Looking at the parts that were masked off during the powder coating, you can see just how effective the sand-blasting was. The stem of the front fork is really clean and shiny, whereas before it was not particularly clean. - I ws expecting to have to hammer the crown race back onto the fork with a length of PVC pipe (it had been pretty tightly pressed on to the flange around the top of the fork, with some of the original paint underneath it)but in fact it just dropped into place and actually rotated quite freely. - It seems ok as part of the reassembled headset, though.
The finish is really good, when you can see it close up: the low-res Jpegs don't really do it justice.
The whole process was relatively painless. I dropped it in on a Tuesday afternoon and picked it up the next Friday. The cost was £75 plus VAT (=£90). The only hiccup was to discover that they didn't accept plastic, so I had to nip up the road to the nearest ATM to get some cash.
I also took the opportunity to drop into Ellis Briggs, nearby, to pick up some new brake blocks and cabling.
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Jem
Viscount
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Post by Jem on Oct 7, 2014 15:18:38 GMT
Yes they did. I delivered the frame and forks and they sand-blasted it and powder-coated it. Looking at the parts that were masked off during the powder coating, you can see just how effective the sand-blasting was. The stem of the front fork is really clean and shiny, whereas before it was not particularly clean. - I ws expecting to have to hammer the crown race back onto the fork with a length of PVC pipe (it had been pretty tightly pressed on to the flange around the top of the fork, with some of the original paint underneath it)but in fact it just dropped into place and actually rotated quite freely. - It seems ok as part of the reassembled headset, though. The finish is really good, when you can see it close up: the low-res Jpegs don't really do it justice. The whole process was relatively painless. I dropped it in on a Tuesday afternoon and picked it up the next Friday. The cost was £75 plus VAT (=£90). The only hiccup was to discover that they didn't accept plastic, so I had to nip up the road to the nearest ATM to get some cash. I also took the opportunity to drop into Ellis Briggs, nearby, to pick up some new brake blocks and cabling. Sand blasted and sprayed for £90 sounds reasonable enough to me. That included any choice of paint? I would love to do that on an Aerospace frame. I guess it would complicate matters (and raise cost) to mask off the distinctive Viscount black sections on a frame for respray though....? |
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Post by velocipete on Oct 7, 2014 17:56:43 GMT
I've had a couple of frames powder coted.The first is a 1954 Clifton,531,nice.Had it done by Banbury Powder Coating.
They did an excellent job,in the Ral colour of my choice.£60 + vat.
The second is my Revell tourer, done by a company near Devizes,can't remember their name at the mo.£55 cash.Limited colours,but quite
acceptable for winter use.
If you were going to get an Aerospace frame done,I would ask them to bead blast,not sand blast,as the tubes are rather thin!Most companies
can do colour of choice,but,if you're not fussy,it will be much cheaper if they do it with a large run of a particular colour.
Not tried putting decals on yet as the Clifton ones no longer exist,and I'm letting the finish mature nicely before doing the Revell.
Don't need to,but can't stand too long in the garage at my workstand,to do a decent job!
Cheers,
Pete.
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Post by dracco on Oct 7, 2014 18:22:34 GMT
There was a relatively limited choice of colours, (my first preference was for a Ferrari Red, but it wasn't in the available colour pallette) but I'm not dissatisfied with the result: there were a number of other companies I could have gone to that offered a range of other choices. There were also a range of finishes available. I chose a standard finish, but I could have gone for a metallic finish (a bit more expensive, but I could have gone for a metallic gold finish, not unlike the original) or a "candy" finish which I think is a type of fluorescent DaGlo coating (most expensive, since it involves a triple coating process). Essentially the company I chose do bicycles as a sideline to their main business which is motor bikes. I imagine that having any kind of customisation with regard to different parts having different colours would incur additional charges. Since I didn't have the Viscount black cylinder markings to start with, I wasn't too bothered about this. One question: I don't want to lose the Viscount identity, which will mean sourcing the Viscount stickers for the the tubes. The only ones I've seen generally available are the (upper-lower case) Viscount Aerospace branding. My VISCOUNT branding was entirely upper-case. I wonder if anyone knows if it's possible to obtain - or to have run off - versions of this and of the the smaller "feature" logos e.g. The head tube "V" logo:  The "Triple Champions" sticker:  and of course the Chrome-molybdenum sticker:  - Actually, this last one (being metallic in nature) was the least damaged by removal and still retains some of its stickiness. It could conceivably be glued back although a completely unscarred one would be preferable. However, I imagine that having a one-off set fabricated might stretch the budget unacceptably. |
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Post by velocipete on Oct 7, 2014 18:39:18 GMT
Have you tried H.Lloyd in Carlisle.They Have Viscount decals on their list.Not the cheapest,but
excellent quality.
Cheers,
Pete.
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Jem
Viscount
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Posts: 3,389
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Post by Jem on Oct 8, 2014 5:49:30 GMT
I've had a couple of frames powder coted.The first is a 1954 Clifton,531,nice.Had it done by Banbury Powder Coating. They did an excellent job,in the Ral colour of my choice.£60 + vat. The second is my Revell tourer, done by a company near Devizes,can't remember their name at the mo.£55 cash.Limited colours,but quite acceptable for winter use. If you were going to get an Aerospace frame done,I would ask them to bead blast,not sand blast,as the tubes are rather thin!Most companies can do colour of choice,but,if you're not fussy,it will be much cheaper if they do it with a large run of a particular colour. Not tried putting decals on yet as the Clifton ones no longer exist,and I'm letting the finish mature nicely before doing the Revell. Don't need to,but can't stand too long in the garage at my workstand,to do a decent job! Cheers, Pete. Thanks for the bead blast tip |
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Post by dracco on Oct 8, 2014 18:09:22 GMT
Hi Pete,
The H.Lloyd website was where I found the "generally available" stickers. These have the "Viscount" name for the tubes, and the shield logo for the head tube, but none of the other decorations. - I guess I could contact them to see how much it might cost for them to run some additional ones up. If anyone else has any interest in the designs in the pictures above, it might help reduce the cost.
Interestingly, H. Lloyd's website is a bit sniffy about powder coating prior to application of stickers/transfers/decals, in that they think that the coat sometimes doesn't allow the transfers to adhere well, or that it may be problematic if the transfer is sealed with a clear lacquer coating. Since Viscounts were originally powder-coated this seems a bit paradoxical. That I was able to remove the smaller stickers in (almost) one piece suggests to me that these weren't lacquered over (but they were certainly stuck on with a remarkably persistent glue!). The longer ones along the tubes were a pig to remove. Any further information on this would be welcome. What has been people's experience of applying any of the Viscount transfers to their (powder-coated(?)) frames? Did you use the "Dryfix" or the "Cut and printed" type?
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Post by cusqueno on Oct 9, 2014 10:30:21 GMT
There are some Viscount stickers currently available on eBay UK which claim to be NOS. I do not know if the issue H. Lloyd mentions about the adhesion of transfers to powder coatings is real; but Viscount were something of a pioneer in using powder coating and it was used on many Viscounts (all? - someone with more knowledge can confirm). Talking of Busaste, he had some stickers made up, including some of the small ones, and might be able to point us in the direction of his source. Note that many of the Viscount labels (all?) were stickers, rather than transfers/decals, and for them the supposed adhesion issue might not exist. See also link |
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Jem
Viscount
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Posts: 3,389
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Post by Jem on Oct 9, 2014 20:55:16 GMT
The one that Steve mentioned to me was Image Works , here.. www.bike-stickers.com/homepage.htmBut I can'd find the name of the guy who he dealt with, but he said they were very good and helpful |
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Post by dracco on Nov 14, 2014 17:18:23 GMT
I thought I'd post an update on my restoration project. Not much has happened in the last month: I've applied new handlebar tape, fitted a pair of mudguards (there IS something more difficult to assemble than Ikea flat-pack furniture), replaced the brake cables and finally managed to source a replacement Selecta left-hand bottom bracket cup thanks to ebay USA. $15 (inclusive of postage) seemed like a good deal, and it arrived the other day.
With that I'll be able to remount the BB and crankset, fit a new chain and I'll be ready to roll.
Here's hoping that we have a nice sunny weekend some time soon.
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Post by velocipete on Nov 14, 2014 19:10:19 GMT
If not soon,how about DFR3,and/or Eroica?
Pics are always appreciated,I wish I could do
them myself!B useless with I.T.
Cheers,
Pete.
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Post by dracco on Dec 8, 2014 16:03:00 GMT
The moment of truth arrived this weekend. After a protracted process of dismantling, repainting, regreasing and reassembling, the refurbished Viscount was ready to ride.  Bright sunshine greeted the new paintwork and now gleaming metal (thanks, Brasso), and I leapt gaily into the saddle (well, heaved the old bones on top) and took it up the hill to the top of our village for its first working-up trials. Slippage of the rear wheel against the chainstay immediately necessitated a tightening of the QR skewer. The slushy braking indicated that the brake cables needed additional tension (and I realised that I'd remounted the brake levers a touch high on the handlebars). The gears worked! (and then unworked, since I hadn't tightened the shift levers sufficiently). Then the chain fell off. (Fortunately, not until I'd got to the top of the hill, so could freewheel back down again). - The new chain connection was by means of a powerlink, which had come undone, resulting in the chain unreeling in a nice straight line behind me. I've clipped it back, and will see if it holds up for longer. I can see that the principle behind it is that it makes chain attachment and repair conceptually simple: I'm not yet convinced of its practicality. If it doesn't hold up, I'll be having a few words with the HYM from the bike shop who sold it to me. In between all these, I actually did get some time to appreciate the ride. - My first ride on a Viscount (The Virgin Viscount Experience - if you exclude the once-around-the-carpark when I first acquired the bike from my colleague)! The behaviour I would best describe as "skittish". I put this down to a number of factors. (i) It seems naturally manouevreable (in the way that the Sopwith Camel succeeded as an early air combat fighter through flying on the edge of instability, making it highly aerobatic). (ii) The frame is definitely too big for me (well I can reach the pedals, at least, although with the saddle in its lowest possible position) and this definitely gave me the feeling that I was somehow perched too high off the ground. (iii) I haven't yet reattached the toeclips, so that my relationship to the pedals was - shall we say - tenuous at times. (iv) The road surface in semi-rural North Yorkshire is less than ideal, and in addition to avoiding potholes, it's advisable to steer around the large deposits left by the local equestrians. However, it's clear that this is something of a speed machine (or it will be once I get myself a bit fitter: being laid flat with a respiratory infection for the last month wasn't the ideal preparation for cycling in 2 degree temperature). |
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Jem
Viscount
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Posts: 3,389
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Post by Jem on Dec 8, 2014 21:32:33 GMT
Looking great! Well done. Rear wheel slippage , rubbing on chainstay- check Re-tightening brake cables -check self-loosening gear levers - check Crappy roads -check Chest infection -check Horse muck- check Yep, I've been there too  Are you going to manage to live with the frame a touch on the big side? |
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Post by dracco on Dec 9, 2014 16:49:27 GMT
Well, I'm not going to be getting any taller, but so long as I don't slip off the saddle and find myself singing in the front row of the choir I'll see how I manage.
Look at the bright side, If I do find it too hard to handle, I've got a ready-made excuse to buy a smaller bike!
(On the other hand, I'm just about to start work on another refurbishment - not a Viscount, alas - for Mrs Dracco. She might find that I get more use from it than she does).
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