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Post by wheelson on Feb 23, 2021 23:55:22 GMT
I've been looking through the archives and can't seem to find any weight numbers for the Viscount frames. I weighed the pseudo - Supa frame I have, the brushed chrome frame without water bottle braze-ons but with integral seat post clamp ears. It's a 21 inch frame, Center-Top of Top Tube and 21 1/2 Center-Seat Tube cutoff. It weighs 4.2 pounds with the steel pressed in head tube cups in place. That seems pretty light. I wonder how this compares with other Lambert and Viscount lugless frames as I always thought that chrome plated frames were slightly heavier than a comparable sized painted frame. I didn't weigh the Type 3 aluminum fork but understand they may be heavier than a comparable steel one!
Best,
John "wheelson"
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rodh
Viscount
Posts: 122
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Post by rodh on Feb 24, 2021 0:18:10 GMT
Mmmm, I don't have frame weights, but the advertised weight of the pro was 22 lbs 8oz with tubulars, 24 lbs 8oz with clinchers. I guess the Supa is slightly lighter with all that Dura Ace bling. Mine's got clinchers, so its faster downhill  Rod |
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Post by wheelson on Feb 24, 2021 1:28:40 GMT
Mmmm, I don't have frame weights, but the advertised weight of the pro was 24lbs 8oz with tubular wheels/tyres. I guess the Supa is slightly lighter with all that Dura Ace bling. Mine's got clinchers, so its faster downhill Rod After a 60 year riding experience, the Supa is my first encounter with setups, aka sprints. No doubt clinchers are faster downhill in spite of weight. The setup riders are stopped at the top of the hill, fixing flats and messing with glue. 🤨 Just wondering about the weight as Viscounts were advertised as being somewhat lighter than comparable bikes of that era. Best, John “wheelson” |
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Post by oldroadietehachapi on Feb 24, 2021 5:46:40 GMT
I have two 58cm Viscounts. One bare frame weighed 4 lbs 0 oz the other 4 lbs 3 oz. This is the same weight range as my Columbus SL frames of similar size. I have weighed many forks and found my Death forks to be a few ounces heavier than cromoly forks.
See charts
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Jem
Viscount
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Posts: 3,390 
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Post by Jem on Feb 24, 2021 11:49:04 GMT
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Post by wheelson on Feb 24, 2021 17:36:38 GMT
Excellent responses, all. On another forum there is much discussion for “weight weenie” bike candidates and to me a Viscount Aerospace seems like it might work. At 190 lbs myself, I’m not sure that less that 4 lbs for a frame would make any sense. Like Jim, I’m trying to tailor a bike for a specific need, in this case hills. We have lots of them here in Western Pennsylvania USA. Another reason for another bike!?!? Oh, and the spell check changed sew ups or sprints to something else but you know what I mean, right?! Best, John “wheelson” |
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Post by brianbutler on Feb 25, 2021 1:30:31 GMT
I just weighed a 21-1/2" Viscount (GP) fillet brazed frame with everything removed, including headset pressfits - 1937g. The Tange replacement fork weighs 738g. The death fork for that size frame weighs 838g. Neither fork has a crown race pressed on.
Brian
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Post by wheelson on Feb 25, 2021 4:27:17 GMT
Thanks, Brian. It seems the Viscount frames consistently run about 4 to 4.2 pounds. Not a bad thing, pretty light for a steel production frame.
Best,
John "w"
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Post by oldroadietehachapi on Feb 25, 2021 5:18:45 GMT
My first build of my Black Viscount weighed 20lbs 11oz. It had vintage components, a titanium bottom bracket spindle, and an after market aluminum fork. It would have been a bit lighter had it had sew ups instead of clinchers. Light Build photo -
Cheers Jim |
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Post by franco on Feb 25, 2021 12:23:48 GMT
Always good to see your black Viscount, Jim, it’s one of my forum favourites.
My non technical contribution to this thread is in terms of weight, I think the Aerospace Pro and Sport are similar to bikes built with Reynolds 531 tubing. As for feel I prefer Viscount, I don’t know if that’s a geometry thing or something else. That is based on what I have owned, don’t get me wrong I’m not making comparisons to high end 531 bikes, I’m talking about bikes that would have been in a similar price bracket at that time of manufacturing.
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Post by wheelson on Feb 25, 2021 12:51:37 GMT
Always good to see your black Viscount, Jim, it’s one of my forum favourites. My non technical contribution to this thread is in terms of weight, I think the Aerospace Pro and Sport are similar to bikes built with Reynolds 531 tubing. As for feel I prefer Viscount, I don’t know if that’s a geometry thing or something else. That is based on what I have owned, don’t get me wrong I’m not making comparisons to high end 531 bikes, I’m talking about bikes that would have been in a similar price bracket at that time of manufacturing. I have two other bikes that have Reynolds 531 tubing, a Schwinn Paramount and an Austro Daimler Vent Noir ll. I think the difference with the Viscount is that it may be straight gauge rather than butted? That said, I find they all ride beautifully. I put the Paramount in a class by itself but it may be all in my head, though. I have a theory thatt, within a certain class of bikes, a significant bit of that magic ride we feel lies in the fork. I base that on two modern bikes I have, one steel and one aluminum frame. I have one steel fork that I can interchange between the two, turning the ride feel from so-so to excellent. I suspect that it’s that the fork is not only steel but it’s the rake of the fork. Stay tuned as I experiment with the silver/black Aerospace when the weather improves. Best, John “wheelson” |
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Post by franco on Feb 25, 2021 13:45:35 GMT
Always good to see your black Viscount, Jim, it’s one of my forum favourites. My non technical contribution to this thread is in terms of weight, I think the Aerospace Pro and Sport are similar to bikes built with Reynolds 531 tubing. As for feel I prefer Viscount, I don’t know if that’s a geometry thing or something else. That is based on what I have owned, don’t get me wrong I’m not making comparisons to high end 531 bikes, I’m talking about bikes that would have been in a similar price bracket at that time of manufacturing. I have two other bikes that have Reynolds 531 tubing, a Schwinn Paramount and an Austro Daimler Vent Noir ll. I think the difference with the Viscount is that it may be straight gauge rather than butted? That said, I find they all ride beautifully. I put the Paramount in a class by itself but it may be all in my head, though. I have a theory thatt, within a certain class of bikes, a significant bit of that magic ride we feel lies in the fork. I base that on two modern bikes I have, one steel and one aluminum frame. I have one steel fork that I can interchange between the two, turning the ride feel from so-so to excellent. I suspect that it’s that the fork is not only steel but it’s the rake of the fork. Stay tuned as I experiment with the silver/black Aerospace when the weather improves. Best, John “wheelson” You are definitely onto something there John, with the fork rake and material contributing a lot to the feel of a bike. It’s one of the reasons I am reluctant to replace the Mk III death fork on the Pro, but at the same time I know if I don’t it won’t get used as much as it should. I’ve got some chrome steel forks for it with a similar rake but haven’t got around to cutting them to size yet. |
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Post by brianbutler on Feb 25, 2021 14:58:06 GMT
The interplay of fork material, dimension, rake, and trail pretty much determine the feel of a bike. If any of them dominate, I would guess trail.
Brian
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Post by wheelson on Feb 25, 2021 15:46:51 GMT
I would have to agree, Brian. One of the bikes I was talking about is a steel Taiwan-made Nashbar 6000T "touring" frame from the early '90s. With the stock fork, not a bad ride feel but with a slight toe clip overlap. The replacement fork, also steel makes a world of difference in the ride. Also, no toe clip overlap, so I guess that makes the rake theory valid.
Best,
John "w"
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Post by brianbutler on Feb 25, 2021 16:22:16 GMT
OK, in your example you initially had too much trail and the new fork pushed the road contact point forward and reduced it. I have heard that too little trail makes a bike "twitchy". That was the problem with the Bianchi Trofeo I was using for a while last year. It felt like it wanted to steer itself. I guess too much trail kills the ride as well, based on your observation. How would you characterize the improvement in your example?
Hopefully, optimal trail has a bit of leeway. Otherwise tire size will have a big effect. Maybe we need adjustable front dropouts.
Brian
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Post by wheelson on Feb 25, 2021 17:22:56 GMT
OK, in your example you initially had too much trail and the new fork pushed the road contact point forward and reduced it. I have heard that too little trail makes a bike "twitchy". That was the problem with the Bianchi Trofeo I was using for a while last year. It felt like it wanted to steer itself. I guess too much trail kills the ride as well, based on your observation. How would you characterize the improvement in your example? Hopefully, optimal trail has a bit of leeway. Otherwise tire size will have a big effect. Maybe we need adjustable front dropouts. Brian Hard to describe the change with the replacement fork, more responsive, a more comfortable ride as in a bit more shock absorbing? The latter would be especially true when running it in the harsher riding Cannondale. Best, John “w” |
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