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Post by franco on Oct 10, 2020 19:13:58 GMT
Wasn’t sure which section to post this in but I wondered what other people’s choice is and why. Especially with the forum being mostly about vintage bikes/cycling and attracting a more ‘mature’ age group and if that affects personal opinion. For example, years ago I don’t remember anyone wearing a helmet unless they were a club rider.
Ive read arguments that suggest a helmet is about as about as useful as a paper hat in the event of a high speed collision and ive also read about them saving peoples lives.
I wear one if I’m doing a longer distance ride on the roads, seems the right thing to do although I’m not keen on them. If I’m doing a short ten miles or a run to the shops I usually wear a cap, that probably doesn’t make much sense as an accident can happen within a hundred yards of leaving home but I miss that feeling of riding freely. Without getting dressed up like I’m in a game of urban warfare with motorists. The U.K. at least seems to be getting more uptight about this kind of thing, compared to places like say the Netherlands where nobody wears a helmet although I appreciate their cycling infrastructure is far superior to ours.
What are your thoughts?
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Jem
Viscount
?
Posts: 3,418
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Post by Jem on Oct 10, 2020 22:17:26 GMT
Yeah, it's a big debate isn't it?
I have a helmet but never took to it. Tried around 10 years ago when I got back into bikes to get into the habit, but didn't. Many reasons - too many to go over here. I read all the conflicting reports. But I nearly always wear a cap...
Our school makes them sign a contract and they have to wear them if they come on a bike...which then reduces the numbers that come on bikes because they either don't have a helmet or have nowhere to put them at school,(about 6-8 out of 800 students ride their bike to school , which really depresses me) and in turn that puts more cars on the road, and makes less of them like to come on bikes because their parents see the roads as dangerous ...catch 22. I think places like Holland and Germany that put the bike at the centre of a cities transport infrastructure just creates more people who think like cyclists, and therefore protect cyclists.
And after having said all that, I had a boss about 12 years ago who was a keen cyclist, came off his bike and the front of his helmet took the brunt of a fall and he is pretty sure it saved him some serious damage. And let's not get started on the James Cracknell story...
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Post by brianbutler on Oct 10, 2020 22:17:58 GMT
I have worn a helmet for 40 years and only needed it once.
Before that I was working in New Hampshire and riding each morning with my boss, Brad. One day after we got to the office and changed into civilian clothes a coworker asked if we wore those black shorts and helmets. Brad offered the following analysis:
"We do wear the shorts because it prevents chafing, hides dirt, allows flexible movement, etc. We don't wear helmets because I think it reduces your vision, plus it makes it harder to hear traffic, and it is not compatible with my glasses, etc. Er, wait a minute, that's not it. The truth of the matter is that I don't wear one because I would rather risk cracking my head open than look like an asshole." We had a good laugh.
A few weeks later we were riding and he caught some railroad tracks at an angle and went down, cracking his head open (just the scalp fortunately). We rode back to his house with a blood soaked rag tied around his head. Shortly thereafter we adopted helmets.
Brian
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Post by triitout on Oct 10, 2020 23:58:50 GMT
100% always wear my helmet. My awakening came in 1982 when I was rear ended by a drunk driver. Luckily, I was ready for the impact and the driver was attempting to brake so only bad road rash as I managed to skid on the crushed wheel and stay on the bike (my original Viscount Gran Touring). I still have the rear rim with the bumper imprint as a reminder that shit happens and sometimes there's no way out. It really did save my life in 2009 when my seat post (Kestrel 500 sci) snapped without any warning. I woke up laying in the road surrounded by police and EMS. The helmet cracked and I had a bad concussion which is much better than my head cracking. EMS told me I was lucky that I had a helmet otherwise it would have been much worse. I struggled with post concussion syndrome for several years and biking was a real struggle due to balance issues. If I wasn't in love with biking, I would have stopped riding after that.
I think of snapping the buckle of the helmet the same way as I think of using my seatbelt every time I get in the car. The helmet is like an insurance policy. You hope you never have to use it but it's nice to know it's there when you need it. For those who don't wear a helmet, think about doing it for your family because they'll be left having to pick up the pieces if you ever hit your head without one.
Cheers, Michael
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Post by brianbutler on Oct 11, 2020 0:26:31 GMT
Sooper8, what a funny cross-post:
You: And after having said all that, I had a boss about 12 years ago who was a keen cyclist, came off his bike and the front of his helmet took the brunt of a fall and he is pretty sure it saved him some serious damage. And let's not get started on the James Cracknell story...
Me: A few weeks later we were riding and he [my boss] caught some railroad tracks at an angle and went down, cracking his head open (just the scalp fortunately). We rode back to his house with a blood soaked rag tied around his head. Shortly thereafter we adopted helmets.
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Post by brianbutler on Oct 11, 2020 0:29:22 GMT
In the US (New England at least), it is very rare to see anyone riding a bike without a helmet. We may be brainwashed but everyone just thinks it is a good idea and doesn't see a downside.
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Post by wheelson on Oct 11, 2020 2:11:51 GMT
Yes, all the time since the first Bell Biker came out in the '70s(?). First near death experience, dropped the front wheel in a bad section of road (what?! in Pennsylvania?!) at very low speed and went over the bars, landed on my head and left arm. Fractured my left elbow and helmet, mild concussion. Still have that helmet as a reminder. Second death cheating incident, riding along on a newly constructed rail trail, crossed an angled bridge only to discover a 10 foot drop at the end, did the proverbial face plant, destroyed the helmet, broke my nose, almost severed my lower lip from the inside, 40+ facial stitches. So today, at 72 I'm still alive. My wife, son, and daughter became helmet believers early on, and I don't remember seeing them ever ride without one. My 2 1/2 year old grandson is now on his second helmet, courtesy of me. Today we 10 did a 20 mile rail trail ride, 4 riders, 1 toddler in a kid seat, and 5 helmets! Best, John "wheelson"
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Post by oldroadietehachapi on Oct 11, 2020 6:56:32 GMT
Always
"Statistics from the Snell Memorial Foundation"
"In bicycle crashes, 2/3 of the dead and 1/8 of the injured suffered brain injuries. 85% of bicycle related head and brain injuries can be prevented by a helmet. Every year the estimated number of bicycling head injuries requiring hospitalization exceeds the total of all the head injury cases related to baseball, football, skateboards, kick scooters, horseback riding, snowboarding, ice hockey, in-line skating and lacrosse. Estimated indirect costs for injuries to unhelmeted cyclists are $2.3 billion yearly. In bicycle crashes, 2/3 of the dead and 1/8 of the injured suffered brain injuries. 95% of bicyclists killed in 2006 reportedly were not wearing helmets."
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Post by franco on Oct 11, 2020 10:11:33 GMT
Thanks for the replies and opinions, as unanimous as I expected.
As mentioned I’m in the ‘depends’ camp. Yesterday for example I only rode four miles to the post office, through a park and around a lake on a Twenty bike. It was meant to be leisurely and I didn’t wear my helmet as there wasn’t much road involved. I’ll try to get into the habit of using it more on short rides though.
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Post by brianbutler on Oct 11, 2020 12:19:53 GMT
There is some peripheral evidence that Americans have softer heads so that could be a factor. Full disclosure, I am a US citizen. Brian
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Post by wheelson on Oct 11, 2020 14:01:52 GMT
LOL. Also a US citizen but my Ancestry DNA suggests that I'm 80+ percent from the British Isles so who knows?!
I do hear the helmet controversy all the time at the shop. Over my 72 years I've pretty well racked up my body and have enough embedded titanium to probably build a bike. Head injuries have a cumulative effect as we're seeing increased interest in CTE in American football players. Personally, I've had multiple shots to the head, some non-bicycling incidents, and experience slight memory loss and lately an intense reaction to loud or sharp noises. I have no doubt that without a bike helmet I wouldn't be around today.
Best, John "wheelson"
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ks1u
Viscount
Posts: 76
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Post by ks1u on Oct 12, 2020 0:12:46 GMT
I never saw the advantages of the padded hairnet, but as soon as the Bell V1 Pro came out I grabbed one and have gone through a dozen variations since then. I never ride without one. Typically on the motorcycles I've owned, my helmets cost more than the bikes themselves. I wish that were true on the bicycles.
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Post by lighthousejim on Oct 12, 2020 12:15:58 GMT
Compared to a motorcycle helmet, which I've worn for years, a good cycle helmet is so light and unobtrusive I don't really notice I'm wearing it. I've only recently discovered the benefits of a cap worn under the helmet as well. Good at keeping the rain out of my eyes, and now I've got less hair than I used to and the weather is cooler, it's a bit warmer as well.
Jim
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Post by cusqueno on Oct 12, 2020 15:08:16 GMT
I always wear a helmet, although I am not convinced that they would do a lot of good in the event of a serious crash. But I have a conversation in my head that goes like this: Judge "The court is sorry that you are in a wheel chair (or worse, Mrs C, sorry about your late husband) and we believe that the crash was 100% caused by the driver who was driving over the legal alcohol limit / well over the speed limit / while using their mobile phone (or all three) however, because you / your late husband was not wearing a helmet, I hold you/him partly to blame for your/his injuries and the amount of damages is consequently reduced by 50%". So I always wear a helmet.
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vfrman
Viscount
hi-13 lamberts[2 gold, 1 reg harris] 3 10 speeds
Posts: 33
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Post by vfrman on Oct 14, 2020 19:42:31 GMT
not to be contrary; a bicycle helmet does not protect your jaw, your teeth, your ears, your eyes, etc....i have 5 motorcycle helmets [only one open face] and only once have i ever seen there were 2 girls out riding with those bicycle helmets that look like motorcycle motocross helmets with the protrusion in front...either noone or very few bikers here are aware these helmets exist or are available; they are much lighter than motorcycle helmets and please dont preach to me about the cost [how much is your head worth]?..the responses i receive will either be ones of shock/surprise or semi-rationalization which say that most will probly land directly on the top of their head or the "odds" arent worth it. being the misanthrope that i am i will not be surprised even if i am attacked personally for wearing nothing at this point. ho many send their kids out skateboarding with protection for knees and elbows etc. shouldnt we be using those also or are we just kidding ourselves..not to digress but i also use one of those giant walmart/schwinn wide seats that support my whole "arse" instead of the ridiculous fashion statement that presses against my pubic bone[thats another talk show]..i doubt i will change anyones mind but the helmets i mentioned are available to order and most surely available in most/all sizes; then your "old" helmets can be used for flower pots?..i welcome any and all rebuttal j. lawrence
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ks1u
Viscount
Posts: 76
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Post by ks1u on Oct 14, 2020 22:53:52 GMT
There's always a trade-off. If full-face bike helmets were sufficiently cooled, hitting target heartrate for intervals on the road wouldn't cause profuse sweat to run in the eyes, which introduces its own dangers. For leisurely joy riding, a full-face helmet is probably a good idea, but when training hard it's not practical. The sweat in the eyes aside, the heat generated during intense activity would be dangerous in the warm months. My Giro helmet has a vented face shield that covers the eyes and the helmet dips down to cover the ears and back of the head. A good set of cycling glasses will also offer protection from impacts for those with helmets sans face shields. It certainly makes good sense to wear a full-face helmet for riding in the woods or competing in off-road events where crashes are common and rocks and stumps are plentiful. As far as seats go, everyone's ass is different. I find the noseless ISM saddles to be comfortable and unrestrictive. I see a lot of personal preferences listed here and elsewhere, but I don't think anyone here or on any of the cycling forums I've checked into is making a fashion statement with respect to saddle choices. I've ridden from San Francisco to San Diego with one of those supposed fashion statements and never had any issues with soft tissue pain, bone problems or saddle sores. It takes training your muscles on the low end of your body to get comfortable on any saddle, wide-body, or not. I've also had a few crashes, one of which with a 1990 Kiwi helmet kept my head intact when going head first over the handlebars when a city worker had left a utility grating ajar and the front wheel went underground. My hip took a beating but the helmet crash to the back of my head caused no injury there. The emergency room doctors said I was fortunate to have been wearing a helmet. Emergency room stats do indicate some level of protection for wearing anything that covers the head. I will say, that if manufacturers made a sufficiently vented full face helmet for triathlons and time trials, I'd certainly get one. Personally, I don't care what other people wear or use but I make choices based on my level of activity and conditioning, data from reliable sources and experiential background which is steeped in literally many tens of thousands of miles on bicycles. I suspect I am not alone.
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Post by wheelson on Oct 15, 2020 1:33:41 GMT
I agree it is most certainly a trade-off. And I will not personally attack or criticize anyone for their choices in politics, religion, bike helmets, or seats (saddles).
I've already mentioned my two major bike accidents and the fact that I'm alive today because of the helmets I was wearing at the time. The second one, in which I suffered severe facial injuries, would have certainly been lessened by a full-face helmet. But if I had been restricted to a full-face helmet, I would have probably have been dead of a heat stroke well in advance of the accident. I realize that helmet designs have made gigantic strides in the past few years but, having worked in a bike shop at the very beginning of bike helmet development and now when those gigantic strides have been made, the major customer complaint is still the same: "I won't wear a helmet because they're too hot". Selling a full-face helmet to anyone but a BMX'er would be out of the question.
As far as cost is concerned, it's usually pick one: 1) Cool or 2) Cheap For a serious cyclist who rides a $ four figure $ bike, no problem. For many bike customers, a $50 helmet is approaching the total cost of the bike they're riding. A MIPS helmet? Forget it. Bottom line is any helmet is better than none. Always a trade-off.
As far as saddles are concerned, I would rate them as the second most difficult and important part of buying a bike (the first being determining proper bike size and fit). At my current bike shop gig, the largest percentage of our sales are hybrids, based on the many rail trails here in Western Pennsylvania USA. Even though the bikes we sell are all major brands and are by no means cheap, we typically replace the saddles with the Cloud 9 in probably 20 percent of the sales. Also of note, the Cloud 9 saddles are sold out and have been for months now. Personally, the saddles I found to be the most uncomfortable in earlier years (Brooks B17, Pro, and Concor) I now find to be my favorites. Go figure. Best, John "wheelson"
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ks1u
Viscount
Posts: 76
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Post by ks1u on Oct 15, 2020 23:22:02 GMT
I hope the following anecdote, which is directly about helmets, is not too far off the original topic. For a few months now I have been making an extra effort to smile and laugh. I mentioned my use of the Kiwi helmet in a prior post and it always reminds me of this: Back in the early 90s, I was competing seriously in triathlons. Most people had not yet grown accustomed to triathlon bikes with their disk wheels and aerobars or the way triathletes dressed. On Wednesday afternoons I would bicycle to one of the local high school tracks and run either 440-yd or 400-meter intervals just like I did in high school. As I cycled into the track area at New London High School I saw two young kids sitting in the bleachers next to the track. The younger one was maybe 7 or 8 and the older perhaps 11 or 12. I was wearing my Kiwi helmet which was large and yellow and had a built-in dark visor that covered half of my face. The two walked up to me and the younger one asked, "Hey mister, are you a man or a robot?" I let out a good laugh and before I could answer the older kid smacked the younger on the head and said, "Of course he's a man you dummy" The kids were interested in the bike and I took the opportunity like I try to always do and told them all about it and the sport and why I was there.
Not long after that, a friend of mine gave me a Lambert bike because he could no longer cycle. It was a generous gift, but I had Viscounts and not Lamberts, so I went to that track a few times after that thinking I would give it to them since they didn't have a bike, but I never saw them again. I kept the bike for a few weeks and then decided to donate to the local shelter for battered women and their children. I always hoped it found its way into the life of a kid who was going through tough times and that it made some difference. I wish I had found those two kids though. The laugh they gave me was easily worth that Lambert.
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Post by blackwizard on Oct 16, 2020 6:38:17 GMT
Went over the bars as a kid and fractured my skull (along with other injuries) resulting in 2 weeks ICU.......a helmet may have made a difference but not made it worse. As such I do wear one these days as I just think it pointless not too although it’s something I believe people should have a choice over and compulsory wearing will just reduce the spontaneous benefits of having a bike.
Saw a guy fall two weeks ago in Richmond Park, he was hurt and an ambulance called but what I noticed was the damage to his helmet, if no helmet that would have been his head!
I recently changed from a cheap helmet to a Kask, what a difference as suddenly it was more comfortable to wear so maybe you get what you pay for.
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Post by brianbutler on Oct 16, 2020 14:53:44 GMT
Blackwizard, good point about not making helmets compulsory. I usually have an adverse reaction to being compelled. I eventually learned that when you want something done a certain way (or done at all) it is better to make it the other person's idea and then congratulate them for thinking of it. In Massachusetts and many other states helmets are compulsory for children. I think the age varies but in Mass. it is under 16. Motorcycle helmet laws are likewise run the gamut from "All Riders" in Massachusetts to "No Law" next door in New Hampshire.
Brian
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Post by dracco on Oct 16, 2020 14:54:32 GMT
I started wearing a helmet when I was spending 6 months working in Australia, and I commuted by bike. It was a legal requirement (possibly to protect cyclists from attack by crows: an apparently common event. A number of people decorated their helmets with stickers that displayed a large pair of eyes on the top. Apparently the crows are deterred by this).
I've also got used to wearing a helmet for skiing, so it's been no problem to continue wearing a helmet for cycling. I'll wear a helmet liner under the helmet in cold weather, and it's noticeable that this greatly ameliorates the incidence of "helmet hair".
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Post by oldroadietehachapi on Oct 16, 2020 21:46:55 GMT
I was reluctant to post this embarrassing picture. I thought I was looking pretty good as I had just been released after a week in (the) hospital. In the crash I landed on the side of my head. My helmet and glasses were broken by the fall. My injuries were mostly below the helmet edge. While in (the) hospital they did an MRI for brain injuries, finding none. They specialist said he saw many bike crash victims and had I not had a helmet, I most certainly would have suffered at least a concussion (if not worse). I always wear a MIPs helmet as during a crash, the head needs to move inside the helmet. I like my brain being intact.
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ks1u
Viscount
Posts: 76
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Post by ks1u on Oct 16, 2020 22:06:26 GMT
Thanks for posting that photo. I'm glad to hear you are OK. It really comes down to simple physics. Anything which lengthens the deceleration time and spreads out the impact is going to help. I agree too about mips.
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Post by triitout on Oct 17, 2020 1:22:31 GMT
I was reluctant to post this embarrassing picture. I thought I was looking pretty good as I had just been released after a week in (the) hospital. In the crash I landed on the side of my head. My helmet and glasses were broken by the fall. My injuries were mostly below the helmet edge. While in (the) hospital they did an MRI for brain injuries, finding none. They specialist said he saw many bike crash victims and had I not had a helmet, I most certainly would have suffered at least a concussion (if not worse). I always wear a MIPs helmet as during a crash, the head needs to move inside the helmet. I like my brain being intact.
Your crash injuries are a very close match to mine. Broken orbital bone, broke glasses, swelling by the eye, etc, etc except I had a bad concussion as well. You were fortunate Jim to not have a concussion. Post concussion syndrome is a real thing and I hope no one ever has to go through it. No MIPS helmets in 2009, but I wear a Bell MIPS now. This happened just before I rediscovered the joy of road bikes. Every ride was like a time trial squeezing in triathlon training on my Kestrel tri bike. No joy in riding the most uncomfortable bike I've ever owned. The day before the crash, I put a deposit on a Trek road bike. Being the superstitious person I am, I sometimes think my Kestrel was just pissed that I was done with it after 10 years of being my sole ride. Kind of like a jilted lover. The winter of 2009 was my rediscovery of my 1976 Viscount and 1987 Vitus 979 and the rest is history. I also discovered that I enjoy racing triathlons on a nice stable road bike way more than said tri bike. The switch was a win-win.
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Post by blackwizard on Oct 17, 2020 4:49:52 GMT
Wow that’s a nasty whack, glad you are ok there.
Regards to Australia mentioned above we often visit and there are lots of hire bikes yet you need a helmet that can be hired from shops dotted around. I did this once or twice but am usually deterred, it just takes the spontaneous pleasure away.
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Post by franco on Oct 17, 2020 10:24:48 GMT
That looks painful, Jim! Glad you came out of it with no serious long term damage.
I’ve had a few accidents but most were back in the teenage BMX days, the worst being breaking my thumb.
In adulthood someone gave me an old 10 speed Racer around the time I didn’t have much interest in cycling other than getting from A to B, I don’t even remember what make it was but don’t think it was anything decent. Anyway, the forks snapped whilst riding down my own street (thankfully), it seemed to happen in slow motion as I went over the handlebars and somehow go into a forward roll on the road. A woman walking down the street shrieked when she saw it, I brushed myself down more embarrassed than anything but when I got home the shock and pain hit me, nothing more than bruises and grazes though. That was the worst one I remember.
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bendo
Viscount
Posts: 538
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Post by bendo on Jun 15, 2021 13:11:48 GMT
I can see I'll be ressurecting old threads for a while... just chiming in to say i live in one of those rare jurisdictions where helmets are compulsory by law. Been the case for long enough now that photos of people not wearing them in other countries gives me a start. Would never wear one if I didn't have to ciz i have a tall skinny head and they always look bad on me.
But I've come off my bike three times where the helmet had saved me from an acquired brain injury. Cars were not involved in any case.
Then there was the one time i was swooped by an aggresive magpie in spring. The bugger made hard contact with my helmet more than once! Later i found two matching, 10mm deep, triangular punctures in the foam just near where my left temple would be. Perfect shape of his beak tip! Second reason to always wear one!
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Post by 54roadie on Jul 10, 2021 0:52:43 GMT
But I've come off my bike three times where the helmet had saved me from an acquired brain injury. Cars were not involved in any case. Then there was the one time i was swooped by an aggresive magpie in spring. The bugger made hard contact with my helmet more than once! Later i found two matching, 10mm deep, triangular punctures in the foam just near where my left temple would be. Perfect shape of his beak tip! Second reason to always wear one! The Chicago area, and actually most of the northern US, is full of Red Winged Blackbirds that can be so aggressive in the spring that local bike trails have warning signs. I've been buzzed a few times over the years, struck once, with only minimal damage to my helmet.
I always wear one. I think of it like house insurance: everywhere I've lived was / is fully insured. I've never had to make a claim. Should I stop carrying insurance? I obviously don't need it. The answer is no. My dwelling remains insured, my head remains helmeted. (Contributory negligence is certainly a deterrent to going bare headed as well.)
In fact, back when I was a gainfully unemployed (read "very amateur") bike racer, I trashed several in the inevitable crashes of the lower category criteriums. I came away with 6 or 8 bent wheels, a broken wrist, yards of road rash, a few deep cuts, one mild concussion and a deep respect for wearing helmets.
Frank
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robt
Viscount
Posts: 562
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Post by robt on May 1, 2023 12:13:16 GMT
I'm resurrecting an old thread in response to Viktor (vtchuck) enquiring whether I knew where it might be possible to get hold of a Viscount cycle cap, as elegantly modelled by Mick Ives in his promotion photo, from c.1975-77. IMG_0015 by RMT@261, on Flickr I vaguely recall someone (Jem?) having found one in an online auction or cycle jumble a few years ago. Does anyone have one they're not using any more?
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robt
Viscount
Posts: 562
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Post by robt on May 1, 2023 14:05:48 GMT
With nothing better to do, I browsed for custom cycle cap manufacturers. Here's what I managed to conjure up on owayo.co.uk
Viscount cap 1 by RMT@261, on Flickr Viscount cap 2 by RMT@261, on Flickr Both with the Viscount logo under the peak as well, of course! The Aerospace logos on the sides use the best image I had to hand.
Prices are quoted as: £25.00 for a one-off; £21.00 each for 5; £18.50 each for 10; etc. (plus shipping).
Amazing what the internet can come up with these days.
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