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Post by nev65 on Jul 7, 2020 10:02:13 GMT
So I've broken my own cardinal rule...don't start thinking about the next refurbishment before you have completed the first one.
My mind is racing onto my next Project..my Aerospace Sport. Recently when i was able to pay some attention to this bike, I noticed that the wheels were different. Rear wheel looks original; high flange Viscount hub on Nisi Evian rims. However the front is a non flange Maillard hub on an alloy rim. It's a good front wheel, but it looks like it has replaced the original at some point.
So I find a "perfect" replacement on ebay. High flange Viscount hub on Nisi Evian rim...perfect...except that to import and ship from the US is close to £150 for a single wheel.
I want my Aerospace to be as Authentic and complete as possible, but for that money i could currently buy a complete Aerospace bike and strip it for parts. Of course, it may be to a different spec entirely, so I'd still end up with mismatching wheels.
I'm guessing that this is a dilemma faced frequently by other members of the forum.
Therefore i'm hoping to calm my frustrations by listening to how you have handled this in the past.
How do other members approach their refurbishments? Do you strive to match parts to be as original as possible or should I focus upon getting a perfectly usable configuration back on the road?
P.S. if anyone has or knows of a spare front wheel with Viscount flanged hub..I'd be interested in talking further.
Nev
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Post by franco on Jul 7, 2020 13:48:07 GMT
I approach projects as refurbishments not restorations, so try to use parts that are close to period correct or look period correct rather than original components.
Otherwise it gets expensive, looking for an old Shimano 600 RD the other day for the Aerospace Pro and you can pay up to £45 on eBay. That might not seem a lot of money but in context that’s more than what I paid for the frame/forks and most of the components. Apart from that there are better mechs out there for less money.
If the project is in really good condition and missing just one or two things I’d probably bite the bullet on cost but so far I’ve focused on getting bikes back on the road in good working order.
Having said that I know there’s guys that completely restore and spend a lot of time doing it and it’s admirable.
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Post by nev65 on Jul 7, 2020 15:27:20 GMT
Thanks Franco, I think you have a good philosophy.
No overall the Aerospace Project is not in great condition and will need a lot more work, and while the frame and fork are sound, I had earmarked the frame for a new re-spray, and the forks for re- chroming...both of which are not cheap. So I do need to keep an eye on the end costs.
As the current wheel is a fine one in its own right, and won't detract from the ride, I am
perhaps better off looking to clean up or re-source some of the smaller components first.
I can always keep my eyes peeled for the right wheel opportunity to come my way in the future.
I can relate perfectly to your example of a good condition RD costing nearly as much as
what you paid for the frame. It's a very difficult call to make. The second hand market will always be quite volatile...but what price do you put upon having that specific part you need??
Nev
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Jem
Viscount
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Posts: 3,418 
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Post by Jem on Jul 7, 2020 19:41:53 GMT
Great question there.
I must admit that I have had projects that are on-going compromises , sometimes because of cash (the lack of it ,or my general dislike of over-spending), or sometimes because the parts are very hard to find when staying original. I might splurge out if I'd just sold a few things and had money in my Paypal account though.
I have been half looking for black first gen Dura Ace components. Sometimes I see bits and they are just too much for me to justify- but part of that issue is that if I found one part, and bit the bullet, but couldn't find the other 'missing part' then it would be so frustrating. So, I am running that project with whatever is closest to original, but it's always an on-going project. I have given up looking recently as I know they are never going to be cheap. Maybe I should spend a few hours trawling searches like 'old bike' with no detailed description and hope the seller is unaware of what it is, and hope no other buyers are zooming in on the photos like I am. Not impossible , but a very outside bet.
Also, I am never in a great rush. I quite enjoy waiting and then something comes up.
Like you say Nev - sometimes a whole bike comes up cheaper than the single component that you are looking for. that might be your best bet?
Anyway - back to your original post - you are looking for a high flange hub on Nisi Evian rim? I will have a look in the shed. I have a a few spare wheels but can't think what they are, some are Birmalux Although I do think most are shimano hubs.
ps I bought a Viscount Aerospace that was a little beaten up for £35 or so in the Sheffield area, not great photos - got it and found in had some 70's Campagnolo RD on it that was probably worth the price of the bike and the drive to Sheffield . Only thing was , I wasn't looking for campag at the time. It's still sat in a parts box.
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Post by wheelson on Jul 7, 2020 21:10:36 GMT
My projects are usually many and long term. I have three Viscounts (Lamberts?), only one currently rideable. The unknown blue modified and built up as a Viscount was identified by some as perhaps an earlier Lambert. That bike indeed may soon turn into a Lambert as I'm overstocked with Lambert-badged components and understocked on Viscount-badged that I will soon need for my silver/black Viscount Aerospace frame. The brushed chrome pseudo-Supabike (has integral seat mast clamp and no water bottle braze-ons) will be built with black Dura Ace, black Viscount headset, and black Viscount hubs built to Birmalux sewup (sprint) rims. I have most everything for this bike except time to build it up. I really wanted to have it ready for DFR-COVID but likely not unless a miracle happens. Looks like the blue one for now. Looks like possibility of storms so we'll have to see how I can make it work.
So my pattern with bikes seems to be long term projects with at least one rideable even if not in permanent form. I'm not above using non-stock or even non-period correct but I do try to stay within the spirit of the original design if at all possible.
Best,
John "wheelson" Wilson
93 degF in W.Pennsylvania USA
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Post by franco on Jul 7, 2020 21:14:44 GMT
Buying a donor bike definitely seems the way to go, the old guy in my LBS advised me on that and I don’t think he was wrong.
I’ve got two old 3 Speed projects on the go at the moment, one is a 1960’s Raleigh Superbe that is being powder coated, the other is a 1950’s Raleigh Trent Tourist that I’m part refinishing myself. Between the two I can build one good bike with the parts I have, so it’s a case of seeing which one works out best.
Unless there is sentimental attachment I just try to refurbish a bike to be roadworthy as close to the original spec that I can.
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Post by franco on Jul 7, 2020 21:21:58 GMT
P.S. I’ll check the spare wheels I have, Nev. If I have what you want I’ll let you know.
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Post by wheelson on Jul 7, 2020 21:42:29 GMT
A donor bike is definitely the way to go. I also like powder coating and have a painter about an hour away that has done 3 single bike framesets and a tandem frameset for me. Cost is around $135USD for bead blasting and coating. It's pretty cost effective because I don't have to ship the frames and a plus is that perhaps the best barbeque anywhere around here is a place called Clem's, about a mile from the powder coaters.
Too many projects have always been my downfall. Besides the 3 Lambert/Viscounts, I have a '74 Schwinn Paramount, a '79 Austro Daimler Vent Noir ll, a '62 Motobecane 650b Cyclotouriste, an '84 Schwinn Voyageur SP, an '83 Bianchi Grizzly mtb, and the list goes on and on, some rideable, some not, all in a state of flux. That's mostly because I'm always looking for a bargain on parts as much as possible. Not as easy as pre-Covid, as most of the thrift stores have been closed and also because there is an extreme shortage of bikes here in the USA. The shop I contract with has been sold out of new and used bikes for about a month and is currently running about 3 weeks behind on repairs. Everyone is dragging anything and everything out of sheds, barns, wherever. We get 20-30 calls a day from people looking for a bike, new, used, ANYTHING! I was working in a bike shop in 1974 during the energy crisis bike boom and even that doesn't compare to the Covid version.
Best,
John "wheelson" Wilson
W.Pennsylvania USA
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Post by brianbutler on Jul 8, 2020 0:11:49 GMT
The right level of authenticity and restoration depends on how you plan to use the bike and what it is worth (to you and in general.) If you plan to ride it, then original components might not be the best way to go. With 60's, 70's, and 80's road bikes there were a lot of nice frames with junk components and vice versa. Witness my 1972 Raleigh Super Course - Reynolds 531 butted tubing with chromed fork ends and stays, and then those cheesy plastic Simplex derailleurs and shifters. There is no way I would restore it to original. Unless, of course, I had owned that exact bike when I was young and it had tremendous sentimental value.
I keep about two or 3 steel road bikes ready to ride and rack up a lot of miles on them. That means rotating through about 6 bikes, moving components from one bike to another sometimes. None of my bikes are "collectible" to the degree that it would make sense to do a 100 point restoration. I put on good components, usually salvaged from Japanese donor bikes. I never restore the paint beyond wet sanding, compounding, polishing, and waxing. I think they look good with the battle scars intact and very little is added to the cost. I like the coolness of a vintage English or French frame, but the running gear, brakes, and wheels have to roadworthy, which often means replacing the original equipment.
Sometimes I think it would be nice to have a collection of top-of-the-line production bikes (Raleigh International, Schwinn Paramount, Motobecane Grand Jubile, etc.) In those cases I might try to find original components since they would likely be higher quality anyway. I might even spring for a paint job and decals.
On the other hand, I really like finding a high quality steel frame road bike for free, or maybe $30, putting in $100 for cables, tires, tubes, tape, and chain, plus a lot of elbow grease then putting thousands of miles on it - much more entertaining than my carbon Trek Madone, which I have not touched in years.
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Post by wheelson on Jul 8, 2020 2:25:02 GMT
Good points, Brian. I don't think I have a single bike that would win in any showing. In fact, I usually take one or two to the Cirque or a CR Weekend at Leesburg, VA or Greensboro, NC. The Austro Daimler and the Viscount are sort of outside the norm for that group but still get attention. The Paramount, while all Campy, is still just one small step above a rider. Most of my bikes came to me as framesets and most took several seasons to get the components together. One more reason to own more than one bike!
I only paint if the bike is in jeopardy and its usually one that I've hauled to the beach or the mountains too many times to count. I find that powdercoating tends to be quite tough. The A-D has the smoky hard chrome finish and that makes it a good scratch-resistant travel bike. I'm looking forward to the same thing with the pseudo-Supabike with its brushed chrome finish.
The Motobecane Cyclotouriste by rights should be painted as it's typically French with very sad thin paint but, for a production bike, it has some rather intricate hand striping and box lining that I just can't bring myself to destroy.
Best,
John "wheelson"
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Post by brianbutler on Jul 8, 2020 13:26:35 GMT
John, I like the comment about French paint jobs. Too true. It brings up another point as well. An authentic paint job often requires more than spraying and decals. A lot of times the "decals" are hand painted or stenciled and there is often pin striping. I would love to have the knowhow and skills for that type of work but it is unlikely.
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Post by franco on Jul 8, 2020 15:51:09 GMT
John, I like the comment about French paint jobs. Too true. It brings up another point as well. An authentic paint job often requires more than spraying and decals. A lot of times the "decals" are hand painted or stenciled and there is often pin striping. I would love to have the knowhow and skills for that type of work but it is unlikely. Raleigh used stencils for the pinstripes, there is an old video from the 1950’s showing women at the factory doing it. They make it look so easy. The decals on my Trent Tourist are hand painted which is why I’m trying to match the colour in and preserve them. I agree what someone said about leaving patina and natural wear but the two projects I have were beyond that. The Superbe had been over painted with a brush as well  |
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