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Post by vtchuck on May 22, 2018 13:40:43 GMT
In another forum, a poster has stated that Yamaha was more than just a distributor / importer and invested directly and significantly in Trusty / Viscount.
Can anyone confirm this? Always though Yamaha was just the U.S. importer.
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Jem
Viscount
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Posts: 3,418
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Post by Jem on May 22, 2018 14:22:51 GMT
I can't confirm it but I recall Steve (Bustaste) telling me something to this effect (or exact words), i.e. distributer/importer. Not sure if he ever told me whether it was 'significant' investment , but I would probably bet it wasn't insignificant. But now I rack my brains, I don't know if he said (or someone said) that Yamaha was just the US distributer I do recall something that linked Koga (and/or with Miyata) having the same distributer deal in Holland (and maybe Europe?) as Viscount (in Holland and/or Europe) Sorry, just read this back and realise I haven't been very clear or helpful I must make a note to refrain from spouting semi-remembered pseudo facts in future EDIT-Apologies...I really didn't read your original post slowly enough because I have only just seen the bit that says "more than a distributer".....oh my word, can I make any more of a mess up of this post? So, quite the contrary - Steve told me they were just a distributer , but I guess that would mean a not too insignificant investment ? I'm off for a lay down in a darkened room
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Post by kickstandman on May 22, 2018 17:30:27 GMT
I can't confirm it but I recall Steve (Bustaste) telling me something to this effect (or exact words), i.e. distributer/importer. Not sure if he ever told me whether it was 'significant' investment , but I would probably bet it wasn't insignificant. But now I rack my brains, I don't know if he said (or someone said) that Yamaha was just the US distributer I do recall something that linked Koga (and/or with Miyata) having the same distributer deal in Holland (and maybe Europe?) as Viscount (in Holland and/or Europe) Sorry, just read this back and realise I haven't been very clear or helpful I must make a note to refrain from spouting semi-remembered pseudo facts in future No need to be apologetic, that's close to my understanding too and websearching shows similar. But my question would be, Yamaha replaced the bad forks, so.... that would appear to indicate involvement in the world market.
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Post by kickstandman on May 22, 2018 17:31:48 GMT
Yamaha replaced the forks, so, depending on how fully they did that, that indicates more widely done involvement.
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Jem
Viscount
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Posts: 3,418
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Post by Jem on May 22, 2018 17:41:25 GMT
Just speculating here but maybe the role of distributer gave them legal obligations regarding that recall and costs incurred by it?
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Post by vtchuck on May 22, 2018 20:29:57 GMT
Yamaha replaced the forks, so, depending on how fully they did that, that indicates more widely done involvement. I think the fork recall was only in the US (and maybe Canada?). Or was the UK included?
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Jem
Viscount
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Posts: 3,418
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Post by Jem on May 22, 2018 20:37:45 GMT
I'm going to have to resist speculating and wait for more knowledgeable folks to come along
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Post by theformeremployee on Jun 1, 2018 16:06:38 GMT
Yamaha Sporting Goods took on distribution of Viscount (remember Lambert and Viscount were different firms) in the USA. This included Canada but that wasn't considered a key market. Distribution in European countries and Australia was with individual companies, many of whom were former contacts of the Export Manager, Peter Britton, from his days as Export Manager for Triumph motorbikes when they were in Meriden. In Holland, it was a branch of RS Stokvis. No link to Koga Miyata, that was run by Rini Wagtmans, I seem to remember. The 'investment' made by Yamaha was that they bought ex factory in containers and so the moment the container doors were shut and it was being hauled away, the accountant was off to the bank in Bilston to cash-in the letter of credit. Viscount was owned by Trusty Manufacturing, who were owned by Bell Fruit Machines, itself owned by Cope Allman. You would need considerable forensic accounting skills to work out who held what. It wasn't made easy for the Inland Revenue or Companies House to find out. Yamaha in the USA were faced with the 'fork problem' or rather the potential fork problem - Mick Ives and Rich Travis had been using them for cyclo-cross without any trouble - and decided to offer the Tange made replacement. That was as Viscount shut Bilston when the end of the bike supply contract to Yamaha finished in 1977, the bike boom was over and Yamaha had a huge inventory to try and shift. The fork replacement wasn't part of UK (or European) marketing - in fact, comparatively few bikes were sold outside America. Happy to answer questions like this - I did live through it all, although a long time ago. When I left (or was made redundant from) Bilston (along with 119 others) I made a conscious decision to NOT get involved with any more speculative operations involving bicycles eg Viking, where Rich Travis went. Harry Lazarus, the Sales Director of Trusty, who inherited the remains of the adventure with sports bikes congratulated me on my 'good sense', I remember !
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Post by cusqueno on Jun 1, 2018 19:31:26 GMT
Thanks for all this information. Very interesting background. Perhaps we could arrange for a meet-up somewhere, with some of the enthusiasts (polite word for lunatics) on this board? Are you still based in the UK?
Maybe at the next Death Forks Rally?
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Post by theformeremployee on Jun 1, 2018 21:47:05 GMT
I tried 3 or 4 years ago to come to one of the get-togethers bringing Peter, but he's older than me and hasn't been well. He is also a busy man, even at 80+. I met Steve at Coventry several years ago - one or two others from the factory came along. I live in Suffolk these days. I still like to keep involved with the bike business - I was looking at a carbonfibre framed folder this week. They want to electrify it. I must see where and when the rally is - but bear in mind, no one has ever been able to tell me how many people died as a result of riding either a Lambert or Viscount cast aluminium alloy fork so I tend to bristle at the name 'death-fork'.
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Post by vtchuck on Jun 3, 2018 18:34:39 GMT
Yamaha Sporting Goods took on distribution of Viscount (remember Lambert and Viscount were different firms) in the USA. Thanks for responding and clarifying Yamaha's role. I always thought the whole fork recall was weird, especially considering it happened years after Yamaha ended its relationship with Viscount / Trusty.
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Post by schrauber on Jun 9, 2018 7:20:40 GMT
Yamaha replaced the forks, so, depending on how fully they did that, that indicates more widely done involvement. I think the fork recall was only in the US (and maybe Canada?). Or was the UK included? I remember when the fork recall came through in Australia, and maybe a fork breakage. Memory is failing. I think the cracks in frames or joint problems being the more real issues with owners.
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