|
Post by blackwizard on Mar 31, 2018 21:33:37 GMT
Had an attempt at building a wheel today for the Lambert rebuild and whilst the result is not shoddy and after some work and adjustment runs very true I’m still puzzled about the hole positioning. I always understood that the hole to he left of the valve hole should be upper in position and this was your start point. However on these rims it is in the lower position which means when rebuilt the spacing that is usually there for the pump head is in the wrong location. Has anyone else found this or have I missed a trick here? pin.it/kejqawkrs36uh3pin.it/in6qlvkmulsghp
|
|
|
Post by eaglerock on Mar 31, 2018 22:27:31 GMT
I'm a little unclear about the issue, maybe because of the differences between UK and US terminology, but mostly because your photos don't show the wheel from straight on at the side, with the tire valve and all the spokes clearly visible. But this is how I'm interpreting your problem: 1) You have the wheel all laced up, with all spokes crossing correctly. 2) The spoke holes in the rim are offset to either side. 3) The offset for each spoke is to nearest side of the wheel (driveside spokes use right-offset eyelets; non-driveside spokes use left-offset eyelets) 4) When laced this way, the spokes on either side of the tire valve angle towards each other, violating the wheel-spoking convention that the adjoining spokes angle away from each other, in order to open more space for pump head clearance. Do I understand the problem correctly? If so, then I know exactly what you're talking about, because I've stumbled into that situation several times. For reasons I find difficult to understand, rim manufacturers with offset eyelets tend to place the offsets exactly the opposite of the way I think they should. At least, Mavic does it that way. There are several guidelines that "everybody knows!" you're supposed to follow when building a wheel: The opening over the valve hole, lining up the hub so that you can read the hub branding through the valve hole when the spokes are tightened, etc. In practice, a lot of these guidelines contradict each other, especially with modern components. I've often wondered whether the component manufacturers know or care about these guidelines; they certainly don't seem to place a priority on designing their equipment to conform to them. In practice, most of the wheels I've built have had the converging-spokes problem, while conforming to the other principles (hub branding viewable, spokes offset to correct sides). I often don't see the problem until I'm at the moment of final truing, by which time I'm usually frustrated enough that I say to hell with it, and I just finish it up and ride it as is. Since I'm only using floor pumps and frame pumps, not big compressor-driven stuff you'd have in a factory, pump clearance hasn't been a huge issue. But for all those wheels, I try to remember that the next time I rebuild the wheels I should rotate the spokes 2 holes around to open up the pump space. It's possible that this may break the hub-label-through-valve-hole rule, but who's going to look at that other than me? The wheels I've built that have the placement "correct" are ones where a more experienced builder has intervened before I did the final tensioning, and has forced me to relace before final tensioning. As far as how the wheels actually perform, they're exactly the same So, no, it's not just you.
|
|
|
Post by blackwizard on Apr 1, 2018 5:46:05 GMT
Thanks for the very detailed help and you are spot on with the issue. I did some more digging around and found that some manufacturers as you say do things “differently” and Mavic are one of those. Also like you I’m using either a track or frame pump so the clearance isn’t a big issue for me, the wheel is laced correctly and runs true so I’m tempted to say to hell with it and keep it as it is on he basis I actually doubt anyone will notice unless they are being hyper critical which of course certain FB groups can be, no names mentioned but I’m sure we all know of one or two.........🙄 At the end of the day this certainly looks substantially better than the condition I got it in as you can see from the before pictures below. pin.it/pqtdomafqffhlzpin.it/e4igs2mzl55rpv
|
|
|
Post by wheelson on Apr 2, 2018 12:02:21 GMT
"blackwizard" "Had an attempt at building a wheel today for the Lambert rebuild and whilst the result is not shoddy and after some work and adjustment runs very true I’m still puzzled about the hole positioning. I always understood that the hole to he left of the valve hole should be upper in position and this was your start point. However on these rims it is in the lower position which means when rebuilt the spacing that is usually there for the pump head is in the wrong location. Has anyone else found this or am I missing something?"
No, this sometimes happens due to the drilling of the rim. It did on my just built wheelset using large flange Viscount hubs and 27 inch rims salvaged from a Raleigh (Ukai?). Same problem, but not horribly so since there's plenty of pump head space. Anyone who knows wheelbuilding (been doing it for 50+ years) will understand and forgive. Many modern rims are terribly built and our vintage ones will outlive all the fancy "squirrel catchers" anyway. Best, John "Wheelson"
|
|
|
Post by blackwizard on Apr 2, 2018 12:05:04 GMT
Thanks John, you are making me feel better about it now :-)
|
|