|
|
Post by busaste on Feb 14, 2017 14:28:10 GMT
Hi
Much of my inactivity/underperformance on this magnificent forum and the equally great CTC forum is due to spending the last 9 years (far too long!!!!!!) trying to piece together the Lambert/Viscount history. Oh, and doing a few Viscount project bikes - 8 in all - too!
It has been a big undertaking and cost me a fair bit to make happen too.
I think I am nearly there information wise and in many respects I did it just in time as a number of the key Viscount people that I have spoke to or communicated with electronically have since passed away.
I have to be careful how I write up the history too as there are some aspects of it which are, ahem, slightly controversial as they involve major business interests (that could reduce me to financial ruins!).
My biggest failure was being unable to convince John McClaren, former head of Yamaha operations in the USA, to spill the beans on the death fork. Now, sadly, he is no longer with us so that's it I'm afraid, we will never have all the facts about that fork. I can understand John's reasons for not wanting to disclose the full story. The death fork was a very difficult issue for him to deal with that, ultimately, he just wanted to leave behind. Also I have made no progress with finding Clive Marriott former Lambert CEO. After Lambert went under he just vanished into thin air! Finally, almost all of the people I have found who worked up to the very end of Viscount in 1983 just will not talk about those final years. Was it that bad?! Come on guys; if you are reading this please get in touch.
I have started to write up the history and it is pretty comprehensive BUT, the question I keep asking myself is, what do I do with it? Publish a book? Put it on this or other forums or create a new Lambert/Viscount website that offers nothing but information? Or, something else? The chances of getting a book deal are, frankly, very remote (I never started any of this to make any money!) so the question then is where is the best place to put the information?
This is where you good people come in! What do you think I should do? What would you like to see?
Your thoughts would be much appreciated.
Thanks
Steve
|
|
Jem
Viscount
?
Posts: 3,418 
|
Post by Jem on Feb 14, 2017 18:34:29 GMT
Hi Steve - For what it's worth here are a few thoughts to knock around...
How about a Kickstarter or other such crowd funded project for a physical book? I think it goes without saying that most people here would buy one.
Or there are ways to produce e-books and get it on to the marketplace (Amazon for example) that would cost almost nothing and would generate revenue. (the iBooks author on the Mac produces amazing, professional looking finished pieces and can be read on the iPad or computer).
You can also make up glossy or matt books within iPhoto and then have them printed up. They can be hard or soft cover etc. By not being out in the marketplace and no middle men, it might side step the 'legal' issues etc. It would be a small run, with every copy going out to people you know. (signed by the author!)
The good thing about any of these ideas would be that you have some control over the finished product.
A single web site with everything on would be a great legacy for all your research and work, and something of a landmark for years to come for all Lambert/Viscount owners. It could put right a few of the myths that have grown up over the years. You could put some advertising on the site and raise some revenue from it. Although I failed on here to do it (well, it was a success until I fell found of Google rules), it was generating between £1-10 a day toward the end.
And now the downsides....although all of of us here would buy one, there may not be a huge market for it?
Images are always a huge headache for any project like this. Gaining permissions can take forever if at all.
The issue with the legal stuff....maybe an informal chat with a legal person might put your mind at rest? And then some prudent editing if necessary ?
Web sites can be a pain in the backside to set up and maintain and deal with even after the initial start up.
Are you sure a publishing company wouldn't be interested? If they were, they would do all the legal stuff, and seek permissions etc.
Just food for thought Steve....If we can be of help then just help. We have an array of professions and knowledge here, I am sure others will have plenty more to say and chip in with.
|
|
|
|
Post by oldroadietehachapi on Feb 14, 2017 18:52:59 GMT
Right on!
If nothing else, be sure that your hard work is preserved in some way for those of us with an interest.
All the Best
Jim
|
|
bendo
Viscount
Posts: 538
|
Post by bendo on Feb 15, 2017 2:27:49 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by sprockit on Feb 15, 2017 2:30:07 GMT
A book is an absolute must!
From your writings on the CTC Forum I'd guessed that writing anything about the history of Lambert and Viscount would be like dodging bullets in a war zone with the potential for libel action on virtually every horizon.
You once quoted someone as saying 'every crook in the bicycle business has been involved with Viscount at some time or other', and if they were correct I personally think that seeking the protection of a large publishing house would be the best course of action. They may be less inclined to take the book on for it's supposed limited appeal or niche interest, but it's also in their own interests to not get sued, so even if they didn't take it on you may get some very useful feedback. If you self-published the book, or put it up on a website, you'd need to be very careful with the legal side of things.
In this, the digital era, it is possible to do very small runs, and once a book is out of print, some firms will even do one-off copies.
Although I've been a printer all my working life, I've never had dealings with the big publishing concerns, but during training we were always told that a libel action can be taken out against the author, editor, publisher or printer. The Internet has changed so many things - I know these words can be read anywhere in the world and can reach a potentially huge audience - but I'd put more trust in words that are printed on a page because once they are on there, they can't be deleted, and authors go to great lengths to ensure what they say is correct.
I'd go for the printed word first, guided by a publisher or legal bod, then a website at a later date.
As for the silence of Viscount's late-era employees, I remember the CTC forum post by a member - whose brother worked for Viscount and left because of the way parts didn't fit but were used anyway - who felt that his brother wouldn't want to be reminded of his time there. A possible explanation?
Your research makes my timeline imagination run a bit wild when I think of how things were in the factory when each of my bikes was being built - the early Viscount International with it's Aerospace frame and host of Lambert parts, the 400 built in the heady(?) early days at Potters Bar, then the 1982/3 Sprint and Sport with their mismatch of parts - if only they could talk!
In fact I've just remembered I know a novelist who does short run print. I'll ask him what the craic is and send you a pm.
|
|
|
|
Post by cusqueno on Feb 15, 2017 13:27:52 GMT
I think self-publishing is worth looking at. There are a lot of options and it's not the preserve of monomaniacs these days. (Although an obsessive interest in Viscounts might amount to a mania?)
Try searching on the term. There are many resources out there and views both for and against. I'll send you an article separately.
A Wiki or just Google Docs could help to spread the editing & proof-reading load.
|
|
|
|
Post by triitout on Feb 15, 2017 18:28:19 GMT
I'm with Cusqueno on self-publishing. My wife's cousin self-published a family history book and made it available to our small group. It was a similar labor of love. There's nothing like holding a physical book in your hands. I'll see if I can get you contact details as a possible way to go.
|
|
|
|
Post by kickstandman on Feb 16, 2017 2:33:27 GMT
Sometimes one first self-publishes but eventually gets picked up by a big publisher. ---------- It certainly is curious that something like the helicomatic hub has its own dedicated website. That is obscure bicycling history. www.borgercompagnie.com/helicomatic/history.html---------- I have a book on the history of Raleigh bikes, big company but I doubt even that was a best seller. ---------- Newspaper series? How long of a book? 70 pages? |
|
|
|
Post by kickstandman on Feb 16, 2017 2:36:07 GMT
An artist, not too bad, has some cycling paintings he then, put on postcards. Then he went to local shops and got some of them to carry them. Ideas like these are not bad. Could one do that with a book in bike shops, generally, I'm not too sure. Bike shops sell modernity, maybe co-ops, vintage bike places, might not be a bad place to try. Maybe ebay and the like too.
|
|
|
|
Post by cusqueno on Feb 16, 2017 10:01:49 GMT
A friend of mine has had a number of books about various aspects of management published by Palgrave Macmillan, such as 'Sun Tzu and the Project Battleground'. Although not vanity publishing, these books cannot be big sellers (and not at those prices either!). Palgrave publishes 'award-winning research which changes the world across the humanities, social sciences and business for academics, professionals and librarians. We offer authors and readers the very best in academic content whilst also supporting the community with innovative new formats and tools.' So might be worth a shot? Perhaps if the book is pitched right: 'Lambert and Viscount cycles: a corporate history of the bike-boom years', or something? I could arrange a meeting with the author if you're ever in London, Steve. I also have an acquaintance who runs (ran? - he might have retired) a bookshop specialising in industrial history and he has published some books on canal history. I could dig out something about that. Getting quite excited about this ... |
|
Jem
Viscount
?
Posts: 3,418
|
Post by Jem on Feb 16, 2017 21:24:33 GMT
If it were self-published does that mean the small run would mean that the potential legal issues really wouldn't be a problem? (by that I mean...they wouldn't really be sold in shops or to the public in the real sense of the word)
I know a publisher but he does fiction etc
Stella used to be an editer too...
|
|
|
|
Post by raymondo on Feb 16, 2017 21:45:52 GMT
Sprockit a printer , me the ink man, we are halfway there.
There we go make it fiction, based on a true story.
On a serious note I think a book would sell more than you think. I have purchased specialist engineering books which you would think would not even get close to be published . I also know a man who had a book published on the 'cal look vw beetle' and thats niche.
|
|
|
|
Post by busaste on Feb 19, 2017 11:38:34 GMT
Thanks for all the great thoughts and ideas! MUCH appreciated. It looks like a book has to be the way to go. Being old school I have to admit there is something nice about a book! Portable, no need for electricity/software updates, no software crashes to deal with, permanent availability, etc. I also like the idea of leaving a digital information legacy too. The only reason I have done all this obsessive research is so that I can capture - before it is too late - the knowledge that is out there and share it with, well, any one. By the way, thanks to kickstandman for this, www.borgercompagnie.com/helicomatic/history.html Human 'every pot has a lid' behaviour at its very best. I loved it! So, watch this, er, space. I'll keep you all posted of my progress. Cheers Steve |
|
|
|
Post by whippet on Feb 19, 2017 20:33:12 GMT
Good luck Steve. Light at the end of the tunnel!
|
|
|
|
Post by Stella on Feb 28, 2017 15:17:06 GMT
Hi, all.
Jem pointed out this thread to me.
In my experience, non-fiction books have it easier to get either picked up by a publisher, or an agent. Most bigger publishers won't even consider new authors without an agent, so landing a big agent is key. It's been a while since I was involved in all this, so things might have changed. I've self-published with Amazon (digital) and Createspace (for paperbacks). I'm sure there's other outlets nowadays, but both were manageable. It's the formatting that throws a few curveballs, but once that's done, it's plain sailing.
Steve, it'll certainly be a big contribution to English/British history!
|
|
|
|
Post by thechatterboxman on Jun 24, 2017 10:55:43 GMT
I would buy a book in a heartbeat. I am serious.
Randy
|
|
|
|
Post by busaste on Nov 5, 2017 17:40:13 GMT
Bit more progress made.
Up to my neck in the Lambert period.
This book writing stuff takes AGES!!!
|
|
|
|
Post by wheelson on Nov 5, 2017 22:02:50 GMT
Steve,
I've been a listmember for only a very short time but a Lambert/Viscount fan for ages. Your comments on my Viscount "unknown" were of immense help, I can only imagine what a book might be worth.
I've been an amateur genealogist for a few years now, with scads of notes, papers, photos, and documents of my family so I know how you feel about being up to your neck in data.
Like family history, once bike history is gone there are no more pathways to the facts and no where to turn for people like me who "just gotta know". It's absolutely essential that you preserve this history in some form or fashion. I personally think a book would be great, something that could be passed on with my Viscount to my son and on to my (soon-to-be) grandson. It only adds to the value and the appreciation of the bike, just like the provenance of my '74 Schwinn Paramount. These can be purchased from Richard Schwinn at Waterford Cycles, well work the US$50.
Best,
John "wheelson" Wilson
|
|
|
|
Post by oldroadietehachapi on Nov 6, 2017 6:50:02 GMT
just like the provenance of my '74 Schwinn Paramount. These can be purchased from Richard Schwinn at Waterford Cycles, well work the US$50. Best, John "wheelson" Wilson A 1974 Schwinn Paramount; wonderful bike! Cheers Jim |
|
|
|
Post by busaste on Nov 6, 2017 19:44:27 GMT
just like the provenance of my '74 Schwinn Paramount. These can be purchased from Richard Schwinn at Waterford Cycles, well work the US$50. Best, John "wheelson" Wilson A 1974 Schwinn Paramount; wonderful bike! Cheers Jim Could not agree more. WANT one! |
|
|
|
Post by 54roadie on Nov 14, 2017 0:09:53 GMT
Steve, Thank you for your monumental effort in putting this together. Are you accepting pre-orders? Do you have a PayPal account? I'll chip in $25.00 right now. If it ends up more, bill me when it's appropriate. If less, keep the change. '74 Paramount, or thereabouts? I will keep my eyes peeled. Around here, anything Paramount related might just show up. This one is in Idaho, unfortunately. Size? '74 Paramount |
|
|
|
Post by cusqueno on Nov 24, 2017 9:51:39 GMT
I wonder if Steve has seen this blog with lots of information about the early history of the Trusty Manufacturing Co? |
|
Jem
Viscount
?
Posts: 3,418
|
Post by Jem on Nov 25, 2017 6:41:39 GMT
I saw that one a long time back - that little red/blue Trusty Pavemaster was my very first bike as a kid.
|
|
robt
Viscount
Posts: 562
|
Post by robt on Nov 27, 2017 15:20:26 GMT
 trusty_pavemaster_nd by RMT@261, on Flickr Those mixte-style downtubes, the rear rack and pump-pegs, those substantial mudguards (fenders?) and chaincase, those chubby white tyres! Could it be that the Sebring wasn't my first Trusty/Viscount bike after all? Chapeau to my mum and dad for the hand-brushed repaint and chrome polishing! You have to admire the wooden pedal blocks too. (I know I've put this picture up before, and please excuse the smug child and Simon Cowell waistband, but I think that Sooper 8 and I might have a bicycle history in common that goes back more than a few years...)  Untitled by RMT@261, on Flickr |
|
|
|
Post by blackwizard on Dec 7, 2017 14:05:56 GMT
Steve, if you do publish I’m in for a copy. Currently restoring a Lambert GP, frame in with Bob Jackson’s for painting so hope to have it all on then road next summer. Would post images but not sure how on this forum......any advice would be welcome. Nick
|
|
|
|
Post by 54roadie on Dec 14, 2017 7:59:25 GMT
Hi Nick, did you get your photo issues figured out? You have to use an online, third party hosting site and post the link back here. There are some guidelines in the Welcome section; you might start there. Looking forward to your photos. Is is an OEM restoration, or a rebuild with other things you happen to like or have around?
Frank
|
|
|
|
Post by blackwizard on Dec 14, 2017 8:18:55 GMT
Hi Frank, thanks for the info, will check this out but currently in China so not easy with the big firewall here.
I basically managed to salvage all the components and am having it repainted in as close to the original as possible, want this to be true to the spec it was made too. I have a few other English bikes on the road or in bits as restoring them has fast become a passion of mine. The fleet currently include a 1979 Carlton GP in use, 1939 Carlton Flyer that is being rebuilt to a period track spec, 1956 Carlton Clubman on the shelf awaiting work, 1970 JT Rodgers that was in use but was stripped for the frame to be re-painted and a few modern bikes. Once the Lambert frame is back from painting it will be re-assembled, all parts are cleaned, serviced and ready for the frame (well the QR's are still in for a re-chrome) so not a long job and it will be back to life. Will work out how to post pictures so it can be shown when finished.
One part I am struggling on though is the front part of the clamp for the front derailleur, mine was broken when I got it and whilst I found a Simplex one that will work it is a bit bigger and has Simplex on...........anyone got a spare? The other issue is the quill bolt which has a 10mm head on......is this peculiar to Lambert as I have not managed to find one this small yet and the one I took off was rounded on the allen key slot so had to be removed with a torx. Two options I have are to either drill out the stem to take a larger one or try and turn a larger bolt down to 10mm, neither option perfect but both better than having the bolt sitting proud.
Nick
|
|
|
|
Post by 54roadie on Dec 14, 2017 8:58:10 GMT
I have a Shimano Thunderbird front derailleur that you may have, but I see you're in Italy so customs might be a problem (I'm in Chicago, IL, USA). I can send it with a zero or $1.00 dollar value, and as a gift, if that helps. Thunderbird is a Titlist with a steel clamp. Mine came off of a Gran Prix, if that's any help to you.
I have found that stem quill bolts are a nightmare unto themselves, as there must be hundreds of variations. No, I have never seen another that's at all like the OEM Lambert / Viscount. I may take the one from my Gran Prix to my local hardware store, or someplace like Grainger or McMaster-Carr, to see what they have. I have an ITM stem with no quill bolt that may need to return to service before spring, so I will keep the folks here informed as to my results.
Best regards,
Frank
|
|
|
|
Post by blackwizard on Dec 14, 2017 9:12:59 GMT
Hi Frank
That's a very generous offer but the Simplex one I have does actually fit the rest of the clamp and I think with a bit of machining I could make it work and remove the simplex name at the same time. Once I am back in my "man cave" at the end of January I can have a go and see how it works out.
Re the stem bolt I am so glad you said that, I was beginning to think I was loosing my touch sourcing things these days. I have picked up a couple of spares from Bike Jumbles and my first plan is to try and turn the end down to size one rather than drill the stem. In theory it should work but will let you know how I get on after the event.
My home is in Italy but I am English and spend large amounts of time in China as my wife and I have a factory here which is where I am for a couple of months now hence the bikes are sadly on hold. I do have a house in the UK as my father is still there but try not to visit much other than to see Dad, to cold and wet for my liking.......... :-)
Regards
Nick
|
|
|
|
Post by 54roadie on Dec 14, 2017 19:53:33 GMT
Sorry, Steve for hijacking your thread. I really do want to read your book. $25.00, or more, is yours via Paypal the instant it's ready.
Nick, let's move further discussion to new threads elsewhere on the forum. Thanks
Happy Holidays to All,
Frank
|
|
