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Post by gerryattrick on Sept 10, 2016 18:29:09 GMT
I just bought this bike on Gumtree and am as pleased as punch. I was looking for a retro bike to renovate and the ad. picture looked promising.
It is in almost perfect condition, absolutely no rust and just one paint chip on the chainstay. I think it is the original kit on it including the Positron gears. It literally did belong to "one careful lady owner", the grandmother of the seller, who told me it hasn't been ridden in years and always kept in a dry garage. She is in her 80s and has at last accepted she won't be riding it again.
I've just done some research on it and I believe it may be from the late 70s, and doesn't have the "Death Fork" on it.
Looking forward to working on it and riding it, although I haven't come across this sealed bearing BB before.
It is light for a steel bike of this type and I was wondering how the frame compared to the sportier Viscount Aerospace models (which I must admit to knowing little about) as I am toying with the idea of converting it to drop bars and perhaps a double front chainset.
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robt
Viscount
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Post by robt on Sept 10, 2016 23:31:56 GMT
Congratulations! That is a great find and a fantastic bargain. I know at least one member here who'll be very envious of your good fortune. (Looks like your size too, Jem!)
I have a Victor in ruby red that I have had for a couple of years, and which I have been fitting a set of mudguards to this evening, having given myself a damp back while out for a 10-mile ride today on the premise of picking up sandwiches for lunch. I really enjoy its simplicity, and find myself whistling 'raindrops keep falling on my head', picturing the scene from Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid. (Look it up on YouTube if you're too young to remember!) Mine had lost its Positron bits before I bought it, but it works very nicely with a down tube friction lever, Shimano 600 RD and a new, wide range 6-speed block. Mine has a cable guide on the left side at the bottom of the seat tube to control a front derailleur, but I find that six well-spaced ratios are enough for my needs with the lightweight frame. IMHO, keep it as it is - someone here would probably swap it for a 10-speed Aerospace Sport with dropped bars if that's what you really want!
You're correct in your suggestion that it is light for its type. As I understand it, the Victor is unusual, in that the rear of the frame is fillet brazed (lugless), like other Viscount Aerospace-tubed bikes, but the head tube joints are lugged. Yours looks to have the same lugs as mine, but in better condition. Victors are quite a rare Viscount model, with just one other appearing regularly on this forum, in Australia. There is a lot of material here on the forum regarding the high quality and history of the Aerospace tubing, but you have already discovered its main benefits - light weight and a sprightly ride. All your fittings - wheels, tyres, saddle, handlebars, grips, pedals, look original. You probably have chromed steel wheel rims, which can be entertaining in the wet and add a bit of weight. If they are showing signs of corrosion, the wheels can be rebuilt using lighter aluminium alloy rims which will also provide more predictable braking in the wet. If the rims aren't showing signs of corrosion, you really have done remarkably well. Whatever you decide to do, please don't discard those beautiful nutted high-flange hubs unless you're throwing them in my direction!
If you find yourself anywhere near Hertford on the 2nd October, come and join us for our 'DFR 4.5' ride to the old Viscount factory site in Potters Bar. Otherwise, we look forward to hearing and seeing more of your fabulous find. Best wishes.
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Post by oldroadietehachapi on Sept 11, 2016 5:05:26 GMT
Great buy!  I always seem to buy expensive and sell cheap.  Cheers Jim |
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Jem
Viscount
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Posts: 3,418
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Post by Jem on Sept 11, 2016 8:26:26 GMT
That is a really very nice example of that model. I hesitate to type the next bit, as I am not 100% sure, but seem to recall somewhere that these were the Lambert Aerospace unfinished frames which Viscount inherited and then finished off. (I just searched for thread on it but can't find it). So, with drop bars and a decent saddle it would certainly be as sporty as the Aerospace- don't let it's sedate looking exterior fool you. By the way, those bars, levers and saddle could have been original so don't bin them. They were the parts that would be on the 'All Rounder' model.
I think you'll enjoy the ride! Congratulations on your purchase.
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Post by gerryattrick on Sept 11, 2016 9:29:35 GMT
Thanks for the replies.
The wheels are alloy - Weinmann Rims on Suzue hubs. And the frame is part brazed part lugged.
I suspect it is completely original, including the Bluemel mudguards, the front wing nuts, Pletscher rear rack, and even the rear Sturmey Archer lamp.
I can't believe how well looked after it was, and will put more detailed pics up shortly.
The only slight fault is that the stem is stuck in the steerer, but I will take my time to sort this out.
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robt
Viscount
Posts: 562
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Post by robt on Sept 11, 2016 11:15:43 GMT
Alloy rims are a real bonus. It looks as though the only thing our Victors have in common is the stuck stem!
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Post by gerryattrick on Sept 15, 2016 18:31:28 GMT
Does anyone know what make the chainset is on this Victor?
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robt
Viscount
Posts: 562
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Post by robt on Sept 15, 2016 21:22:49 GMT
It looks like the Lambert/Viscount copy of the TA Cyclotourist chainset, as on my Grand Sport (52/44 double, as originally fitted):  Untitled by RMT@261, on Flickr but similar design to my Sebring's non-original Lambert 'Porthole' chainset, modified to 52/42/34 triple (spot the shiny inner ring).  IMG_4470 by RMT@261, on Flickr Spa Cycles in Harrogate stock TA Cyclotourist Chainrings, double chainring bolts (set of 6 required), triple chainring bolts (set of 6 required), and crank to outer ring bolts (set of 5 required)* to allow most modifications. I think they fall into the 'reassuringly expensive' category. *SJS cycles are currently offering the crank to outer ring bolts at £5.99 and also stock a range of quite large 'inner' chainrings. I use a Suntour Cyclone FD for the triple setup on my Sebring, as pictured above. The Shimano 600 FD pictured on the 52/42 setup is the original fitment. It is difficult to guess the BCD of the 'spare' holes you have in your chainring without knowing how many teeth it has. The 'Porthole' chainring I have came as a 52/42 pair, but with two bolts between each porthole to attach the 42T (now middle) ring, and I used just the 80mm BCD holes to attach the 34T inner ring, using a new set of 'triple' bolts. Spa Cycles' picture of their middle/inner rings show BCDs that appear too small to just bolt into place on the ring you have, but I'm sure they would be happy to advise you over the phone if you have the dimensions. If you're just looking to give yourself some lower gears, I have combined the 48T single chainring on my Victor with a 6-speed 13-32 IRD Classica Freewheel from Spa Cycles, also available from SJS cycles. They are index profiled to give very smooth gear changing across the admittedly wide steps. |
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robt
Viscount
Posts: 562
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Post by robt on Sept 18, 2016 16:02:28 GMT
Following my screed on Sept 15th on the TA-style chainsets used on two of my Viscounts, I've had a closer look at the one on my GS and done a bit more Googling. The double chainset on my GS is actually a 52/44 and is stamped with the TA logo. The BCD is about 152mm. This suggest that it is actually a TA Criterium chainset. The Classic Lightweights website indicates that the smallest chainrings that could fit to this BCD were 44t or possibly 43t. The chainset on gerryattrick's Victor looks to fit this description. Depending on the size of the fitted chainring, an additional inner ring might offer limited additional gear ratios unless you're planning to run a Whippet-style 'straight-through' freewheel. SJS cycles do have a range of sizes on offer in their obsolete/obscure section, though, if you fancy making up a pair (54/49?) to suit you, or just bolt a 58t to the outside of your current ring. An alternative would be to track down a Lambert/Viscount 'Porthole', SR Apex or Sugino Maxy chainset in 52/42, all fitted as OEM to Viscounts and the axles fitted through their sealed cartridge b/b bearings. Modern retro chainsets are available from Planet X and Velo Orange, but you'd need to check the recommended b/b axle length to maintain your chainline, as I think that these may be made to be fitted in conjunction with modern rear wheels. |
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Post by gerryattrick on Sept 19, 2016 21:44:56 GMT
Thanks for the info which will come in very handy. I'm undecided about fitting a double chainring and wondering whether I'm better keeping it as original and not using it on some of my more hilly rides. One thing I will have to do is get new tyres and am undecided between Schwalbe Marathon or the amberwall Panaracer Pasela. I will also change the grips as it has the original hard white plastic. Here are some more detailed pics: www.flickr.com/photos/62926895@N07/ |
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Post by gerryattrick on Sept 30, 2016 18:10:13 GMT
I've just started upgrading some of the components on the bike and have changed the tyres, which had perished sidewalls, for Panaracer Pasela amberwall, and changed the uncomfortable saddle and seatpost for an old leather Lycett L'avenir and a Stronglight post.
Straightaway I've made my first mistake. I bought 27 x 1 1/4 tyres and am having problems with the rear wheel. The tyres are a little bit too big and rub on the mudguards plus they only fit between the chainstays with the tiniest of clearances. This definitely appears to be a road bike frame sizing.
As I get older I still rush in without thinking everything through in my haste to get the bike on the road.
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robt
Viscount
Posts: 562
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Post by robt on Oct 1, 2016 10:15:20 GMT
Sorry to hear you're struggling to fit the 27x1 1/4 tyres between your chain stays. The rear derailleur hanger 'claw' pushes the axle and the rest of the wheel forward in the dropouts, reducing the chain stay clearance compared to the frames with the hanger already built onto the rear dropout. I have the 27x 1 1/8 Continental Super Sports on mine. They fit OK, but they are all black, no gumwall. The 27x1 1/8 Paselas are pricey, but very highly regarded - any chance of exchanging with your supplier? |
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Post by gerryattrick on Oct 1, 2016 13:27:02 GMT
Because they have been fitted they cannot be returned, but I have arranged to sell them on at a bit of a loss, so not a total disaster.
You look to have confirmed my thinking about 1 1/8 being the right size.
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Jem
Viscount
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Posts: 3,418
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Post by Jem on Oct 1, 2016 15:09:20 GMT
As I get older I still rush in without thinking everything through in my haste to get the bike on the road. If I posted up all of the things I do in haste and then regret, it could have a forum of it's own! You're in good company here |
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Post by gerryattrick on Mar 11, 2017 20:24:41 GMT
I mentioned earlier in the thread that I had a stuck stem in my Viscount. I volunteer in a community bike workshop and have come across many stuck stems in old bikes but this was as bad as any I have seen, I reckon it has never moved in 40 years and was chemically fused to the steerer.
Well, after after about seven or eight hours over two months, it's out. I had to cut it off about 1cm above the head tube to remove the fork and used a number of gradually increasing size drill bits to increase the centre stem hole and then a padsaw. I was still stuck with about 2cms of stem which I couldn't cut as it was stuck to the wedge too deeply in the steerer. The final coup-de-grace was done (very, very carefully) with a caustic soda/water mix. After two days soaking it finally dissolved the stuck bit of stem.
I managed to get an almost identical stem and the bike will be completed next week.
Not sure what to do with it as I have just bought another project bike, a late 60s Sun road bike, so it might be up for sale soon.
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Jem
Viscount
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Posts: 3,418
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Post by Jem on Mar 12, 2017 6:47:24 GMT
I mentioned earlier in the thread that I had a stuck stem in my Viscount. I volunteer in a community bike workshop and have come across many stuck stems in old bikes but this was as bad as any I have seen, I reckon it has never moved in 40 years and was chemically fused to the steerer. Well, after after about seven or eight hours over two months, it's out. I had to cut it off about 1cm above the head tube to remove the fork and used a number of gradually increasing size drill bits to increase the centre stem hole and then a padsaw. I was still stuck with about 2cms of stem which I couldn't cut as it was stuck to the wedge too deeply in the steerer. The final coup-de-grace was done (very, very carefully) with a caustic soda/water mix. After two days soaking it finally dissolved the stuck bit of stem. I managed to get an almost identical stem and the bike will be completed next week. Not sure what to do with it as I have just bought another project bike, a late 60s Sun road bike, so it might be up for sale soon. The persistence medal of the week for stuck stem removal goes to Gerryattrick! Just let me know if you are letting it go....I'd be interested. |
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bendo
Viscount
Posts: 538
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Post by bendo on Mar 13, 2017 10:35:13 GMT
That's an absolute beauty! I agree that it looks like you got it with nearly all original parts. So don't throw anything away! Tyre size: my experience with Aerospace frames echoes yours. If no mudguards, then 1 & 1/4" fits, just. With mudguards, def 1 & 1/8". Paselas all the way! Head lugs, totally different design to my Victor. I suppose we shouldn't be surprised by Viscount/Lambert's constant mix-n-match approach to speccing their bikes. Performance: what the other guys said: the frame is a real Aerospace and performs like a thoroughbred. Especially with those rims and hubs. My Victor came with Suzue hubs and awful steel rims. If you start riding it you won't sell it. I call mine a "High Performance Gentleman's Town Bike." The crankset may not be original, because that TA ring is missing its inner and Victors were only 5 speed. I can say that with 85% certainty because the frame doesn't have the brazed-on cable-guide tab that all other Aerospace's have for the Titlist front mech. You could still clamp one on but I say keep it as is. It's a rare bike, made even more special by the fact that very few non-Japanese bike firms were going with Shimano gear at this early stage, especially something as weird and wonderful as the first gen Positron, one of the very first indexed shifting systems. If you want to find smaller rings, or different combinations, TA still make all the variations of ring that fit that BCD. The are called "Pro 5 Vis" and can be purchased from various European, US and Japanese sites: www.bikeonlineshop.net/specialites-ta/pro-5-vis-outer-chainring I have a brand new touring bike (not a Viscount) with TA rings: a 46 and a 28. My hometown is not that hilly, so I can handle almost everything with the big ring and a 6 speed freewheel, 13-30t. Victor has a 48t up front and a 5 speed 14 to 30 on the back. Alas my Positron has been retired: it folded into the rear wheel one day! Now I have a lovely Suntour Vx Luxe touring mech on the back and a Suntour Power ratcheting thumb shifter on the bars. Pretty much the best shifting combo I've ever used. Oh, word to the wise: those handlebars are the most glorious light alloy but I wouldn't trust them for much use. After about 5 years looking I recently found bars with the exact same amount of sweep and rise. b |
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Post by busaste on Mar 14, 2017 23:05:36 GMT
I just bought this bike on Gumtree and am as pleased as punch. I was looking for a retro bike to renovate and the ad. picture looked promising.
It is in almost perfect condition, absolutely no rust and just one paint chip on the chainstay. I think it is the original kit on it including the Positron gears. It literally did belong to "one careful lady owner", the grandmother of the seller, who told me it hasn't been ridden in years and always kept in a dry garage. She is in her 80s and has at last accepted she won't be riding it again.
I've just done some research on it and I believe it may be from the late 70s, and doesn't have the "Death Fork" on it.
Looking forward to working on it and riding it, although I haven't come across this sealed bearing BB before.
It is light for a steel bike of this type and I was wondering how the frame compared to the sportier Viscount Aerospace models (which I must admit to knowing little about) as I am toying with the idea of converting it to drop bars and perhaps a double front chainset.
FANTASTIC condition! ANOTHER museum quality bike ends up in our community. That sounds good to me.
Clearly the bike has seen limited use and a bit of fettling.
The 5 speed Victor ran from 1975 - 1977. The frame was a full on Aerospace one - Phoenix 1027 tubing, fillet brazed, pressed in bottom bracket cartridge bearings, etc. - but with a lugged head tube. The lugs were usually lined with gold paint too. Nice.
Yours is almost 100% original which is pretty amazing. Even the green label IRC tyres are on! The only variations I can see from the original specification are:
a) the cranks should be Sugino Maxy with a single 3 bolt 48 tooth steel chainring. You have Viscount's own cranks with a TA chainring (a very high quality combination). b) the axle bolts would have had the nice white 'V' on a red background detail. c) the pedals should be chrome rattrap ones made by Union. Not sure who made the ones you have although I do remember them from the 1970s so they are period correct. d) the rear brake cable was held on with 3 chrome clips (screw free type). e) the Shimano Positron (what a name, should be straight out of a Woody Allen movie - remember the 'Orgasmatron' from the 'Sleeper' ?!) shift lever should be on the bar stem (which should be made by SR). Poor Suntour. They slept through Shimano's 'Positron' release unaware that it was to give birth to the Indexing gear change system which killed Suntour off in the 1980s. Ouch!
Errr, and that is it. What a bike! We must see it at this summer's DFR!!!!!!
The limited tyre clearance on the chainstays is a classic Aerospace frame issue. They were built for tubs or narrow section tyres (usually IRC).
The Victor was really intended for light use, town riding, commuting, etc. hence the limited range of gears.
Victors, like all Viscounts were affected by Viscount's part supplies issue hence the alloy rims on your bike (they were usually steel - made by a German company called Schürmann)
How are the mods going?
Cheers
Steve
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Post by gerryattrick on Mar 15, 2017 22:43:40 GMT
I have decided against any mods other than a new (old) leather saddle, a Lycett L'avenir, which is an improvement on the original white leatherette saddle. I have a couple of road bikes already so it would be a shame to move this bike too far from its original state. And I have fitted new tyres. Here is a link to some more photos of the bike when I got it: www.flickr.com/photos/gerryattrick/ |
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