foss
Viscount
Posts: 132
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Post by foss on Feb 20, 2014 18:15:31 GMT
Hi I'm new here , I believe I have a Viscount .... It was listed on the bay as a Raleigh , it has Shimano 600 Arabesque group set ( which was one reason I bought it ) and the pics on the bay showed a strange motive on the fork crown . I put the pic out to a few peeps on FB who eventually recognised it as the winged rider of Viscount , which has now led me here .
The frame number is EX 33 , in the past it has had a bad respray and shimano stickers put on it which is why I could not recognise it . Does this frame number mean anything to anyone here ?
Regards
Ade
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Jem
Viscount
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Posts: 3,389
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Post by Jem on Feb 20, 2014 18:48:41 GMT
Hi Ade,
Welcome to the forum!
I remember following that particular bike through eBay (listed as Raleigh but it did say Viscount somewhere on the listing?). I also thought it would be worth having if only for the Arabesque components.
I just looked in my ebay watched list and can't find it anymore though.
The frame number means nothing to me , sorry.
Can you put a picture up?
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foss
Viscount
Posts: 132
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Post by foss on Feb 20, 2014 18:53:38 GMT
Hi , how do I post pictures on here ?
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Post by velocipete on Feb 20, 2014 19:06:33 GMT
Hi Ade,I don't have lotsof knowledge of Viscount frame numbering.If i remember correctly,even the "Viscount guru",Steve can't sus them out! My bikes have just a series of numbers,no letters.If you look on the flicka Viscount site you may find some photos of the numbers under the bottom bracket,or rear drop out. Not much help I know.Even if it turns out not to be a Viscount,still come along to DFR2 you'll be most welcome. Cheers, Pete.
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Jem
Viscount
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Posts: 3,389
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Post by Jem on Feb 20, 2014 19:12:36 GMT
If you click 'reply' on top right of your original message then a few options come up. One is 'add attachment ' and I think from memory you can add a picture from your computer.
Although what I tend to do is use a site like photobucket, Flickr or some kind of place on line that hosts the pics , then grab the code/address for the pic- then when you click reply there is a tab for image which allows you to paste in the picture address and then the site picks it up.
If all else fails then I will send you my email address- you can mail me and I will post up.
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foss
Viscount
Posts: 132
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Post by foss on Feb 20, 2014 19:20:52 GMT
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Jem
Viscount
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Posts: 3,389
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Post by Jem on Feb 20, 2014 22:21:27 GMT
Hi, I'm going to have a guess at this and could be totally wrong.... In fact, if I'm right I would be very surprised! I'm basing my guess purely on this one picture at the moment 2013-06-14 10.35.04 1 by Sooper 8, on Flickr My Deore 18AX has very similar lug patterns as you can see above. Compared with yours, it could be likely? I'm not sure how similar other bike makes lug work is as I don't have anything other than my Deore to compare against. It would mean that just about everything from the original has been changed but with decent parts of that era? However- the fork crown logo doesn't appear on mine. I realise this is of little help but I am sure someone here can give some info PS - That wasn't the bike I was following on eBay. EDIT- what is the headset on yours?
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foss
Viscount
Posts: 132
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Post by foss on Feb 21, 2014 0:03:42 GMT
I have the same headset as you , is it the 600 ? If mine is the same as yours what can you tell me about yours ? ie what tubing is it , what does 18 AX meen ?
yours has mudguard eyes on the rear dropout mine has none .
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Jem
Viscount
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Posts: 3,389
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Post by Jem on Feb 21, 2014 9:18:53 GMT
In the strict sense of the word the Deore 18AX is the only true tourer Viscount made. I have a post in the 'photographs of your bike section' , where I include the Cyclist magazine review from June '82. They give it a very favourable review. It cost £275 new. It weighed 29lbs with the front and rear Showa racks it came with. It's 18ax because it had 18 gears (it came with a 52/42/32 chainset) and then the groupset was Deore. The frame is chromoly. Mine has had little use and there is no corrosion at all, and the other 18AX frame I have that has a lot of use has a few signs but not bad for a 30 year old bike. Yes, that's my headset too. So, it still leaves the mysterious stamp on the rear drop and the logo on crown of fork....(oh, and lack of mudguard eyelet) Very strange...but as I say, there are others on here who will probably be able to add to this. EDIT- Are your cable guides the same as this? photo 5 by Sooper 8, on Flickr
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foss
Viscount
Posts: 132
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Post by foss on Feb 21, 2014 14:23:35 GMT
Thanks for that , yes my guides are the same Does yours have a peg on the inside of the rear triangle above the rear cassette , which I presume is to hang the chain on ?
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Post by raymondo on Feb 21, 2014 17:59:08 GMT
The rear drop outs are not standard they do not have the mudguard hole so they have been ground off, changed or are from a works race bike. No?
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Post by velocipete on Feb 21, 2014 18:52:33 GMT
Could be on the right track there Raymondo,just wondered whether the EX was for experimental,or prototype. Could have been for the competition department?The lettering is very exposed,so not easily confused with a "normal" bike. Cheers, Pete.
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Post by raymondo on Feb 21, 2014 19:06:34 GMT
Also noticed the gear levers are not clip held but brazed versions. Not sure vicount did this as a rule, never seen one on a late bike. Frame is definately a viscount but been modified by who? The brake gap between forks and wheels are minimum on works race frames, cant see this from the picture. The man who worked at Viscount potters bar from the CTC forum(not posted for a while) might shed some light if we put out a APB.
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Jem
Viscount
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Posts: 3,389
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Post by Jem on Feb 21, 2014 19:36:27 GMT
The rear mudguard eyelet could have been ground off and now hard to spot below the thick paint job? Here is another of mine (pre cleaning) that might be worth comparing with yours. To my eye, it seems almost 'correct' but the bit just before the wheel adjustment screw seems to have a little extra on yours. EDIT- If I had to say one way or another, I might go with Pete's explanation of a prototype/experimental version of the Deore. Anyway, most important question....how does it ride? IMG_3551 by Sooper 8, on Flickr
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Post by raymondo on Feb 21, 2014 20:50:06 GMT
Its the deore frame, this has the brazed gear shifters looking at the pics of the blue bike. Its a nice bike.
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foss
Viscount
Posts: 132
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Post by foss on Feb 22, 2014 0:07:59 GMT
As you can see there is no evidence of a braze on , do they come as standard with that peg ? is it to hook the chain on ? and is this a standard cut out in the bottom bracket ? the bright green could be the original colour ?
Attachments:
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Jem
Viscount
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Posts: 3,389
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Post by Jem on Feb 22, 2014 11:13:48 GMT
As you can see there is no evidence of a braze on , do they come as standard with that peg ? is it to hook the chain on ? and is this a standard cut out in the bottom bracket ? the bright green could be the original colour ?
I may be wrong but I believe the peg (screw) is to make positioning the back wheel easier once you've taken it out. Eg. you position your two screws at the place where the tension is right for your chain etc. Then when you take back wheel out , when placing it back in it takes the guess work out ? I think? By the way, that colour beneath your top coat looks a bit like this Viscount 600AX (courtsey of Cusqueno, a shot from last years Rally) I guess the two models were roughly same time and therefore it could have been possible. IMG_0006 by Sooper 8, on Flickr
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Post by velocipete on Feb 22, 2014 13:22:21 GMT
As you can see there is no evidence of a braze on , do they come as standard with that peg ? is it to hook the chain on ? and is this a standard cut out in the bottom bracket ? the bright green could be the original colour ?
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Jem
Viscount
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Posts: 3,389
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Post by Jem on Feb 22, 2014 15:50:02 GMT
Here's a shot for comparison with yours - not the same...the mystery continues Perhaps your is the 600AX? Then the components would be right, and the colour below your paint job. Maybe Cusqueno can shed some light on this?
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Post by raymondo on Feb 22, 2014 20:59:43 GMT
The mystery continues. I think its a early lug frame prototype. Why would you cut out the section where the bottom bracket is otherwise for inspection. Its not a weight saving feature. The lugged frames are all the same material from this period , the colour , decals and the furniture may change from model to model. The viscount imprint on the forks may have been proposed but cost could be cut if this process was done away with. Dont forget the Escort 3door model was the basis for the Escort Mexico. Two very different beasts.
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Jem
Viscount
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Posts: 3,389
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Post by Jem on Feb 22, 2014 22:01:22 GMT
The mystery continues. I think its a early lug frame prototype. Why would you cut out the section where the bottom bracket is otherwise for inspection. Its not a weight saving feature. The lugged frames are all the same material from this period , the colour , decals and the furniture may change from model to model. The viscount imprint on the forks may have been proposed but cost could be cut if this process was done away with. Dont forget the Escort 3door model was the basis for the Escort Mexico. Two very different beasts. I've seen a few of those Koga-Miyata of the same period with some fancy cut outs under the bb. I agree, not going to save much weight. It would be great if Bustaste could take a look at this.
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foss
Viscount
Posts: 132
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Post by foss on Feb 22, 2014 23:33:58 GMT
I doo know that the Raleigh SBDU - Specialist Bicycle Development Unit had cut outs in there bottom brackets
would any other pictures of my bike help to identify its heritage ?
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foss
Viscount
Posts: 132
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Post by foss on Feb 24, 2014 20:10:20 GMT
Hi chaps I think I've sussed it , I found a Flikr site belonging to Cusqueno he has a Viscount page he has a brochure picture of a 600 EX and the spec sheet says it has the engraved fork crown , and my picture of the BB with that bright paint colour confirms it for me . So my next question is .. does anyone know what that paint colour is called ?.
Thanks for all your help so far , I took it our for a ride on Saturday ... 10 miles in got a rear puncture :-(
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Jem
Viscount
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Posts: 3,389
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Post by Jem on Feb 24, 2014 20:16:28 GMT
Hi chaps I think I've sussed it , I found a Flikr site belonging to Cusqueno he has a Viscount page he has a brochure picture of a 600 EX and the spec sheet says it has the engraved fork crown , and my picture of the BB with that bright paint colour confirms it for me . So my next question is .. does anyone know what that paint colour is called ?. Thanks for all your help so far , I took it our for a ride on Saturday ... 10 miles in got a rear puncture :-( Cusqueno will no doubt be on here in the not too distant future, he might know. One thing to mention though- does your frame have the word 'viscount' embossed on the top of the seat stays as the 600ax?
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foss
Viscount
Posts: 132
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Post by foss on Feb 24, 2014 20:46:23 GMT
no mine has a cheaper looking pushed/ squeezed in look , they probably thought the fork crown was enough for the EX frame
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