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Post by cusqueno on Oct 8, 2013 12:40:52 GMT
This might be totally mad, or a very bad idea, but ...
In a meeting this morning, I was musing, as one does, about what a mountain/ATB bike made by Viscount would have been like - apart from the best in the world (at least for the price) - of course. The fashion for MTBs was just cranking up (sorry) as that for 'racing' bikes was waning - in the early 80s. According to Wikipedia, the first mass production mountain bike was the Specialized Stumpjumper, first produced in 1981. So, if Viscount had continued beyond 1983 the company should have been thinking about making bikes to go with the new mood.
However, as far as I know, Viscount never took that step, although I have heard that Viscounts competed in cyclocross, complete with Death Forks. Perhaps Anthony could say if making an MTB was ever considered? If we were to make up a Viscount MTB today, like some people make fixies from Viscount frames, what would it be like?
Should the frame be one of the 1981 range of lugged Aerospace frames or one of the heavier 'British made lightweight' frames such as used on the Tony Doyle and Sprint models? I guess the latter might be tougher, although many decent steel MTBs use Cro-moly, like the Aerospace frames. And there are more of them about, and cheaper.
Not sure about the wheel size. The road frame geometry puts the bb closer to the ground than on proper MTBs so going to 26" might not be a good idea. Perhaps make a 29er - 700C wheels with chunky tyres, big as you can fit to give some 'suspension'. Or may be '27.5' - 650B / ISO 584mm. And should we fit suspension forks? Would solve the problem of getting brakes to fit over those chunky tyres. I don't like disks, but cantilever or V-brakes would require brazed on bosses.
Group set? Deore started out as being a nice touring set but changed into an MTB one in about 1984. That or some of the early MTB SunTour stuff? Modern gears would likely need the rear forks to be spread to get the wheel in.
If others feel the subject is worth discussing, I'd be interested in your views.
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Jem
Viscount
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Posts: 3,391 
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Post by Jem on Oct 8, 2013 18:16:13 GMT
This is an interesting 'what if?' scenario...I'd never even thought about it!
I don't have specific responses to your outline, but I am enjoying the theoretical knock about of it.
I once made up a Beatles album or two made up from tracks from the 4 individual Beatles albums from the early 70's. It was for my own enjoyment and other than the disparate production values of the tracks, it held together OK and was fun to play around with. I have also read a lot of the historical 'what if's?' from fairly well known writers.
My own contribution to the music related 'what if's?' - are 1) what would Buddy holly have done/ how would he have impacted on music if he'd lived and 2) what would artists like Hendrix and Lennon be doing now if they'd lived and how would they have used modern computer recording techniques and the internet/social media.
So, back to Viscount - I am merely making a guess here (and am willing to look a bit silly or be proven downright wrong) but I would say that by late '81 ,'82 the higher reaches of the company would have known they were in some trouble and made decisions to focus on essential generation of business rather than looking at new markets or drawing up costly and speculative new lines/models/frames etc. Although closure comes as a shock to the majority of a company, there are certain people at the top who see it coming quite a way off and have been battling with it and making decisions based on that knowledge for a while.
So, if I had to give an answer I would say they didn't even have their eye on designing anything new.
But the other part of the question..... what if they did have plans? What would it 'look like'? And if we were to make up some sort of hybrid/atb/mtb with existing parts and known Viscount components what would it be like?
This intrigues me greatly and I'd be interested to hear what people think.
In fact, it has started to make me think of a few more Viscount 'what if's?'
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Post by whippet on Oct 9, 2013 20:26:28 GMT
Apologies for going off on a complete tangent in the "what if" stylee. But how impossible would it be resurect Viscount as a cycle company? Others seem to he doing it: Raleigh, or look at Genesis with their small UK design team and off shore production.
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Jem
Viscount
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Posts: 3,391
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Post by Jem on Oct 10, 2013 17:25:23 GMT
Apologies for going off on a complete tangent in the "what if" stylee. But how impossible would it be resurect Viscount as a cycle company? Others seem to he doing it: Raleigh, or look at Genesis with their small UK design team and off shore production. Whippet - I don't think I would dare say your are off on a tangent here... (says the guy who brought in The Beatles, Buddy Holly and Jimmy Hendrix in his reply  That thought did cross my mind too. I would hazard a wild guess that the legal gordian knot that would need unravelling first , would leave lawyers rubbing their hands. I wonder who has the rights to the name, image and designs now? This feels like a line from a Marvel or comic book super hero film - but I'll say it anyway...."we need Bustste on the case!" |
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Post by whippet on Oct 10, 2013 20:22:04 GMT
Think he's busy sorting my new race wheels...
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Post by sprockit on Oct 14, 2013 0:02:27 GMT
Forming or re-forming the company is the easy bit - with the correct information we could do it by the end of the week!
How to make the bike unique and stand out from the crowd, then finance, design, manufacturing, sales and distribution are the difficult bits!
Patents, trade marks and designs vary by both class and country, but I'll make enquiries and report back.
I have a feeling that it was reported on the CTC thread that two blokes in the United States of America were trying to resurrect, or use the name 'Viscount Cycles'.
Sprockit
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Post by sprockit on Oct 31, 2013 23:17:26 GMT
Patents, trade marks and designs vary by both class and country, but I'll make enquiries and report back. Trade Marks are valid for 10 years, after which time they have to be renewed. If they are not renewed, anyone can claim ownership of them, but caution needs to be exercised as the Trade Mark may still be valid in other countries around the world, or for other classes of product. Expensive advice needs to be sought from a Patent Attorney! Sprockit |
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Post by triitout on Nov 1, 2013 0:21:48 GMT
Forming or re-forming the company is the easy bit - with the correct information we could do it by the end of the week! How to make the bike unique and stand out from the crowd, then finance, design, manufacturing, sales and distribution are the difficult bits! Patents, trade marks and designs vary by both class and country, but I'll make enquiries and report back. I have a feeling that it was reported on the CTC thread that two blokes in the United States of America were trying to resurrect, or use the name 'Viscount Cycles'. Sprockit I swear it isn't me but it is a real cool idea. There is an outfit in the states who has done just that with Dawes, Motobecane and a few other brands from the past. I will try to pick their brains and report back if I get a reply. They only sell online and do quite well keeping their prices very attractive. Anyone with lawyer buddies? |
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Post by sprockit on Nov 2, 2013 22:52:39 GMT
Hi All,
Mrs Sprockit works in Intellectual Property and has been ducking and diving amongst all the paraphernalia and jargon.
She is sorry to supply the following information, which is in the public domain and readily available from the Trade Mark Registry.
The 'Viscount' Trade Mark is in current use, registered to two blokes with the surname Smith, in Leyland, near Preston, UK. They filed in November 2009, with registration following in 2010, and renewal is due in 2019.
It covers 'bicycles; parts, fittings and accessories for the aforementioned goods', in Class 12.
Trade Mark number is UK00002530997.
They also own 11 other Trade Marks, mainly in Class 12.
So chaps, it looks as though any notion we have of reviving the Viscount brand of bicycle is a non-starter, at least in the UK.
Sprockit
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Jem
Viscount
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Posts: 3,391
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Post by Jem on Nov 2, 2013 23:33:33 GMT
Hi All, Mrs Sprockit works in Intellectual Property and has been ducking and diving amongst all the paraphernalia and jargon. She is sorry to supply the following information, which is in the public domain and readily available from the Trade Mark Registry. The 'Viscount' Trade Mark is in current use, registered to two blokes with the surname Smith, in Leyland, near Preston, UK. They filed in November 2009, with registration following in 2010, and renewal is due in 2019. It covers 'bicycles; parts, fittings and accessories for the aforementioned goods', in Class 12. Trade Mark number is UK00002530997. They also own 11 other Trade Marks, mainly in Class 12. So chaps, it looks as though any notion we have of reviving the Viscount brand of bicycle is a non-starter, at least in the UK. Sprockit Well, good work Mrs. Sprockit...So, does it look like these guys buy a Trade Mark in order to make a product or to sell the Trade Mark (as people do with web domains?) and speculate on them? If so , then they may sell. Depending on how they see things, this could be just the amount that it cost them to buy it plus their costs...? Or they may value it very highly. Either way, it would take some serious money to set up the tools to create anything other than bespoke small numbers wouldn't it? (I don't know much about these things, I am just making some guesses based on nothing much more than my basic slight knowledge of making things- which is next to nothing) I'll start saving for 2019 and would love to be a part owner of the Viscount brand...A cooperative type venture? |
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Post by triitout on Nov 3, 2013 0:05:36 GMT
Hi All, Mrs Sprockit works in Intellectual Property and has been ducking and diving amongst all the paraphernalia and jargon. She is sorry to supply the following information, which is in the public domain and readily available from the Trade Mark Registry. The 'Viscount' Trade Mark is in current use, registered to two blokes with the surname Smith, in Leyland, near Preston, UK. They filed in November 2009, with registration following in 2010, and renewal is due in 2019. It covers 'bicycles; parts, fittings and accessories for the aforementioned goods', in Class 12. Trade Mark number is UK00002530997. They also own 11 other Trade Marks, mainly in Class 12. So chaps, it looks as though any notion we have of reviving the Viscount brand of bicycle is a non-starter, at least in the UK. Sprockit Well, good work Mrs. Sprockit...So, does it look like these guys buy a Trade Mark in order to make a product or to sell the Trade Mark (as people do with web domains?) and speculate on them? If so , then they may sell. Depending on how they see things, this could be just the amount that it cost them to buy it plus their costs...? Or they may value it very highly. Either way, it would take some serious money to set up the tools to create anything other than bespoke small numbers wouldn't it? (I don't know much about these things, I am just making some guesses based on nothing much more than my basic slight knowledge of making things- which is next to nothing) I'll start saving for 2019 and would love to be a part owner of the Viscount brand...A cooperative type venture? |
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Post by triitout on Nov 3, 2013 0:11:59 GMT
Maybe there is still hope in the states. I did get an email reply that I'll get a call back from the main man at an online bike seller who has done this with other brands for about 15 years and does a good job producing modern versions with marquee names. Remains to be seen if there could be some involvement on our part to resurrect Viscount at least in the states as part of some kind of joint venture. I confess to be as ignorant as Sooper 8 on such matters but ya never know.  |
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