Jem
Viscount
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Posts: 3,390 
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Post by Jem on Aug 27, 2023 7:35:24 GMT
Does anyone here have a bike with a belt rather than a chain?
What are your thoughts and experiences on that?
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Post by brianbutler on Aug 27, 2023 10:42:02 GMT
No experience with it, Jem. Unfortunately, that system is incompatible with vintage frames because there is no way to get the belt on both sides of the chain stay.
Brian
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Jem
Viscount
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Posts: 3,390
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Post by Jem on Aug 28, 2023 12:24:28 GMT
No experience with it, Jem. Unfortunately, that system is incompatible with vintage frames because there is no way to get the belt on both sides of the chain stay. Brian I'd not thought of that Brian, but now you mention it I see what you mean. - but was specifically thinking of a bike option for my fleet that would require little or no maintenance. I watched a YouTube video of a bike with a belt and a sealed rear hub and it seemed like a fairly rock solid option with next to no maintenance , which is becoming appealing to me. The 'new' bike I bought this year, Genesis Croix de Fer 10 steel frame (that had less than 200 miles on it when I got it, and I doubt if I have done more than 500 on it ) is already showing signs of wear on the front chain ring teeth. Not sure if that is a bad chain set up (?), or just the way things are made these days? (it's a Shimano SORA , so not top of the line, but not bad either) I never saw that much wear on chain ring teeth on my Viscount with many 1000's of miles on them. I am thinking that eventually I would have just maybe 2 or 3 bikes, and at least one of them would be a 'go to' bike that would need very little input |
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Post by brianbutler on Aug 28, 2023 14:25:39 GMT
I understand and agree with your objective of reducing your fleet size and associated maintenance. A new bike with new technology could certainly be part of that plan, but I keep thinking about the last new bike I bought. It was a carbon fiber Trek Madone with brifters, skinny tires, ceramic bearings, and other expensive, error-prone racing-inspired features. I had a lot of maintenance issues with it because of a 200-pound rider on lightly built components, bad pavement, and the occasional trip on a dusty rail trail. I was spending a lot of time and money keeping it in trim and not riding much because of the frequency of flats, mechanical problems, and weather-hesitancy.
I picked up an old Fuji del Rey and all of those problems vanished. My speed was somewhat less but I don't compete and care very little about how fast I am going. I can no longer ride fast, anyway. My annual mileage suddenly doubled and then tripled as I added other interesting cheap and old bikes. They are quite sturdy and easy to work on so I have not been to a bike shop in 6 or 7 years. Recently I found that for nearly all of my riding a single speed vintage bike is ideal. I know it seems counterintuitive but my single speed Viscount Aerospace Grand Prix is my easiest bike to ride on bike trails and roads with up to about 7% grades, which is pretty much 100% of the rides around here. Maintenance on the single speed in very close to zero.
I have a number of geared bikes that I think I need for various purposes, but the ones that are beginning to seem superfluous are the standard drop-bar 10-speeds with factory gearing (i.e. 52/42 front and 14-28 rear.)
I think I could do nicely with a single-speed, a 3-speed, a 10-speed geared for touring, and maybe a low-geared 10-speed with heavier tires for undeveloped trails.
Brian
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Post by wheelson on Aug 28, 2023 14:32:19 GMT
Jem, I am very much interested in a “go to” bike as well. Something I can just get on and ride. So far, airless tires, stainless steel cables - nuts and bolts - fittings, rustless (galvanized?) chain, stainless steel small chainring, sealed bearings everywhere, dedicated tool pack.
Some of the new chainrings are very thin with profiled teeth so a very good chain lube might decrease wear as too would be frequent grit removal from the chain with alcohol before lubing. At one time, slick ceramic coated chainrings were available.
This is a great topic. I just pulled my Cannondale “anywhere” bike out yesterday for a short ride and didn’t even have to think about the usual pre ride stuff.
Best,
John “wheelson”
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Jem
Viscount
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Posts: 3,390
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Post by Jem on Aug 28, 2023 20:43:19 GMT
I picked up an old Fuji del Rey and all of those problems vanished. My speed was somewhat less but I don't compete and care very little about how fast I am going. I can no longer ride fast, anyway. My annual mileage suddenly doubled and then tripled as I added other interesting cheap and old bikes. They are quite sturdy and easy to work on so I have not been to a bike shop in 6 or 7 years. Recently I found that for nearly all of my riding a single speed vintage bike is ideal. I know it seems counterintuitive but my single speed Viscount Aerospace Grand Prix is my easiest bike to ride on bike trails and roads with up to about 7% grades, which is pretty much 100% of the rides around here. Maintenance on the single speed in very close to zero. I read that thread on your Fuji del Rey with the SA gears and thought it looked great, and it had the added benefit of being pretty sturdy and low maintenance. And although I can see the single speed might reduce maintenance even further, I just cant visualise that working for me around here, but maybe I am not thinking 'creatively ' enough? |
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Jem
Viscount
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Posts: 3,390
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Post by Jem on Aug 28, 2023 20:47:16 GMT
Some of the new chainrings are very thin with profiled teeth so a very good chain lube might decrease wear as too would be frequent grit removal from the chain with alcohol before lubing. Thanks for the tip John. Maybe my more recent 'off road' trips on the latest bike have picked up more dirt and grit than I used to get? Here's the video I watched that got me interested in belt drives. I am interested to work out how many of these 'low maintenance' features on that Koga in the video could be done on a budget. |
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Post by brianbutler on Aug 28, 2023 21:31:26 GMT
I picked up an old Fuji del Rey and all of those problems vanished. My speed was somewhat less but I don't compete and care very little about how fast I am going. I can no longer ride fast, anyway. My annual mileage suddenly doubled and then tripled as I added other interesting cheap and old bikes. They are quite sturdy and easy to work on so I have not been to a bike shop in 6 or 7 years. Recently I found that for nearly all of my riding a single speed vintage bike is ideal. I know it seems counterintuitive but my single speed Viscount Aerospace Grand Prix is my easiest bike to ride on bike trails and roads with up to about 7% grades, which is pretty much 100% of the rides around here. Maintenance on the single speed in very close to zero. I read that thread on your Fuji del Rey with the SA gears and thought it looked great, and it had the added benefit of being pretty sturdy and low maintenance. And although I can see the single speed might reduce maintenance even further, I just cant visualise that working for me around here, but maybe I am not thinking 'creatively ' enough? Before converting a bike (1970 Dawes Galaxy) to a single speed, I did a simple experiment. I just put it in a certain gear I used much of the time (40/18) and did a couple of my usual rides without changing gears. It was mostly OK but I did have to work a bit harder on a couple of small hills. Based on that, I set up the single speed with 40/18 gearing and removed all of the unnecessary components. It was actually quite a bit easier that the 10-speed in equivalent gears, I think because of the weight reduction and significantly less chain resistance by eliminating the serpentine route through the RD, plus better chain alignment. After a couple of weeks the hills no longer presented any problem and I decided the gear was actually too low so I changed it to 40/16, which worked very well. When I set up the Viscount Aerospace GP as a single speed I used a similar, but slightly lower, gear ratio of 34/14 because that is what I had available. I have put over 2500 miles on that setup this summer, much of it on the relatively flat local bike path, but also on a 70-mile mixed road/path ride and a number of road rides. For some reason it just feels very responsive and easy. I believe another part of that is mental. When you don't think about shifting, it frees up a lot of mental bandwidth and also eliminates fiddling with gears when approaching hills, traffic lights, etc.
It may not be for everyone but I am quite serious when I say I find it easier to ride the single speed than a 10-speed over the same course. The single speed ride is always a faster pace and I am less fatigued at the end. Counterintuitive but true.
Brian
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Jem
Viscount
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Posts: 3,390
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Post by Jem on Aug 29, 2023 18:24:48 GMT
Thanks for info Brian - that is illuminating. I think I might get 'Freeing up mental bandwidth' printed on a t-shirt , it's a good approach.
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Post by wheelson on Aug 30, 2023 13:35:04 GMT
Brian, “Freeing Up The Mental Bandwidth” is such an excellent motto for all phases of life! Thank you for that. As it pertains to bikes, it’s exactly what I’m trying to do in my 75th year. Simplify and reduce clutter. Avoid duplication. One of my goals lately has been the “anywhere” bike, called the all roads bike in some quarters, taken one step further with the low maintenance, jump on and go concept.
I can’t quite get to the single speed bike as my travel bike must be capable of “mountains to sea” elevations. I’ve always used triple chainrings, now compact doubles with wide range freewheels seems to be the way to go, that’s what I’m seeing even with mountain bike manufacturers. I’m not quite sold on single front/huge rear rings, quite touchy with chain lines on 1 x 10’s. And still not quite the gears you need, according to our bike shop owner who has a Cannondale Topstone and who does insane rides here in Western Pennsylvania USA.
I’m really liking this thread and the sharing of great ideas!
Best,
John “wheelson”
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Post by brianbutler on Aug 30, 2023 15:55:48 GMT
John, I agree with your reasons for not going to the single speed. When I go up to the mountains in New Hampshire I take a compact double, which is geared very low. I think it is 44/34 on the front and 14-34 rear. I almost never use the 44/14 combination because of the terrain. My top pedaled speed would be about 22mph at a cadence of 90, and if I am going faster than that it means I am going downhill and all hills there are steep so I am probably braking instead of pedaling. There are many long grades above 8% and often above 10% so the low gears are necessary.
At home it is a different story. There are a few short pitches of 10% and a few longer grades of 6-7%. Much of my riding is on a hardpack/paved rail trail, which is nearly flat. The single speed is perfect for that combination and the reduced maintenance is a plus considering the dusty rail trail.
To put actual numbers to it, I have ridden just about 5000 miles so far this year. 3500 of them have been on the single speed and the rest are spread across the 3-peed and several 10-12 speeds. I still haven't been on an overnight this year and I'm running out of time. I have a Sebring set up for "touring." It also has a fairly low-geared compact double with a 14-34 6-speed freewheel.
I am thinking about airless tires for winter biking. I fix a lot of flats throughout the year and I figure it keeps my skills sharp, but I hate doing it in winter.
Brian
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Jem
Viscount
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Posts: 3,390
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Post by Jem on Aug 30, 2023 18:58:26 GMT
I’ve always used triple chainrings, now compact doubles with wide range freewheels seems to be the way to go, that’s what I’m seeing even with mountain bike manufacturers. I’m not quite sold on single front/huge rear rings, quite touchy with chain lines on 1 x 10’s. And still not quite the gears you need, according to our bike shop owner who has a Cannondale Topstone and who does insane rides here in Western Pennsylvania USA. I’m really liking this thread and the sharing of great ideas! I am interested in the idea of 1x huge (edit) small front ring and many sprockets at the back- possibly when I upgrade this second hand Genesis CdF I bought this Spring. So, there are some issues with getting things right with chain lines etc? edit -apologies for any confusion over my brain fog of mixing up 'huge' and 'small' single front ring |
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Post by wheelson on Aug 30, 2023 20:00:35 GMT
From what I’m hearing and seeing in the shop, as the number of rear sprockets increases, especially beyond nine, there is so little space between them that adjustments become very touchy. It’s sort of the old cross chaining effect. As for the gearing ratio concerns could be solved by plotting the gear inches out and then comparing to known current favorites. Nice if you could “roll your own” cassette/freewheel. We all know there are duplicates in doubles and triples. Theoretically, a single front is a great idea if you don’t push it too far. Me, I’m stuck at eight rear gears. I have three bikes that are 3 x 8, two with Shimano brifters and one with bar end shifters. To keep on topic, I also have four Viscounts, two are triples and two doubles. My Kona e-bike conversion is a 3 x 7, wild overkill with a 38 tooth low rear sprocket. Now THAT freewheel would be great to experiment with on a one-by bike!
Best,
John “wheelson”
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Jem
Viscount
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Posts: 3,390
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Post by Jem on Aug 30, 2023 20:16:43 GMT
I am also starting to think that there's quite a few 'clicks' distance to go from a 'downhill gear' to an 'uphill gear' on a single front ring set up? Whereas ,on a 2 x front ring, it could be just 1 or 2 'clicks' distance to move to find a nice combination. It might not be a big deal, but it could be if you are riding somewhere you are not familiar with and suddenly arrive at a steep incline you didn't expect? Click, click, clickerty, clickery click clack, crunch etc
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Post by wheelson on Aug 31, 2023 2:51:04 GMT
Nice thing about a single front chainring is that shifting is so straightforward. When the brain is tired, no serious thinking about shift patterns required. Just hit a comfortable cadence and you’re set.
I also liked the early Shimano SIS shifters, switchable between index or friction. They work well with low maintenance bikes, index adjustment out? Just switch to friction and keep on riding. In fact, they’re are a good option for a grab-and-go bike.
Best,
John “wheelson”
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