Jem
Viscount
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Posts: 3,390 
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Post by Jem on Jun 21, 2023 21:15:52 GMT
If I wanted to convert this mixte Sebring bike of my wife's to a Shimano Alfine hub gears , how do I go about it? What is needed and what modifications do I need to make ?  Camera Roll-341 by
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Post by brianbutler on Jun 21, 2023 21:39:47 GMT
Jem, I am in the process of doing exactly this, except I am using an old Sturmey Archer 3 speed hub and a 1983 Fuji del Rey frame. The basic steps are:
1. Build the geared hub into your existing wheel, or build a new wheel. Details left to the reader as a [non-trivial] exercise.
2. Possibly expand the rear stays to accept the Alfine over-locknut width. I believe that might be 135mm but depends on which hub model you choose (disc brake, roller brake, etc.) In my case the SA hub already has an over-locknut width of 126mm, so no frame tweaking was necessary.
3. Replace double or triple chainring with a single chainring that gives the desired gear ratio when used in conjunction with the sprocket on the Alfine.
4. Adjust chain line and install chain.
5. Install a shifter for your chosen hub.
6. Install cables and adjust action for proper shifting.
Sounds easy enough but there are a lot of measurements and tweaking. If you wait a week or so, I will provide full details on exactly how I did (or failed to do) this modification using the Sturmey Archer hub and shifter.
Brian
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Post by oldroadietehachapi on Jun 21, 2023 21:59:49 GMT
Alfine hubbed gearing, wow! I really don't know much about Alfine components; nevertheless, I think this conversion a more difficult project than at first it might seem. The biggest obstacle I can foresee is building a 27" rear wheel with the Alfine hub, spaced to fit the Viscount. To my knowledge Alfine hubs are usually spaced at 135; you may not be able to be narrow the spacing (but who knows) to fit whatever you can cold set and stretch the Viscount stays. Keep us posted as it is interesting to see what can be done.
Brian's Sturmey Archer conversion seems the more practical project.
Cheers
Jim
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Post by brianbutler on Jun 21, 2023 23:52:58 GMT
Alfine hubbed gearing, wow! I really don't know much about Alfine components; nevertheless, I think this conversion a more difficult project than at first it might seem. The biggest obstacle I can foresee is building a 27" rear wheel with the Alfine hub, spaced to fit the Viscount. To my knowledge Alfine hubs are usually spaced at 135; you may not be able to be narrow the spacing (but who knows) to fit whatever you can cold set and stretch the Viscount stays. Keep us posted as it is interesting to see what can be done. Brian's Sturmey Archer conversion seems the more practical project. Cheers Jim It helps to have a Sturmey-Archer hub with the right axle length. They come in several lengths. A few years ago I rebuilt a 1968 unit with 126 mm O.L.D. and had it on my shelf. If I remember correctly, the overall axle length is 159mm. Most of them are a bit shorter and are probably intended for a 120mm rear dropout spacing.
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Jem
Viscount
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Posts: 3,390
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Post by Jem on Jun 22, 2023 6:58:42 GMT
I will definitely wait and hear about your project Brian, Thanks for that simplified outline, I was not totally clear until I read that.
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Jem
Viscount
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Posts: 3,390
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Post by Jem on Jun 22, 2023 7:02:21 GMT
Alfine hubbed gearing, wow! I really don't know much about Alfine components; nevertheless, I think this conversion a more difficult project than at first it might seem. The biggest obstacle I can foresee is building a 27" rear wheel with the Alfine hub, spaced to fit the Viscount. To my knowledge Alfine hubs are usually spaced at 135; you may not be able to be narrow the spacing (but who knows) to fit whatever you can cold set and stretch the Viscount stays. Keep us posted as it is interesting to see what can be done. Brian's Sturmey Archer conversion seems the more practical project. Cheers Jim Jim, I guess that was my main concern, manipulating the Viscount stays to work. I dont think I would attempt that myself, and I am worried about any potential , irreversible damage. And then you point out making up a 27" wheel with the hub might be a challenge - and no doubt one that I wouldn't be qualified for. So, perhaps the SA is a more realistic option, which makes Brian's project a better template for this. |
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Post by brianbutler on Jun 22, 2023 10:43:03 GMT
Wheel building is involved regardless of which hub you choose. It seems daunting but is actually a straightforward, and very rewarding, activity. The choice of hub is dictated by the gear range you want and the over locknut distance of available hubs. So the first step is to build your wheel using whatever hub you choose. Everything else is easy - shifter, chain, etc.
Brian
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Post by wheelson on Jun 22, 2023 12:46:19 GMT
Jem, that’s a pretty big stretch for widening the rear stays, not an easy task due to the brake bridge. Sturmey Archer would certainly be an easier solution. I recall from my earlier bike shop life three, four, and five speed S-A’s, with the fives having the shifting mechanism on each end of the axle. I have no idea of availability.
I’m not saying that the Alfine solution is impossible, though. I just converted a 27inch wheeled Aerospace to 650B.
Best,
John “wheelson”
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Jem
Viscount
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Posts: 3,390
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Post by Jem on Jun 22, 2023 14:33:44 GMT
Jem, that’s a pretty big stretch for widening the rear stays, not an easy task due to the brake bridge. Sturmey Archer would certainly be an easier solution. I recall from my earlier bike shop life three, four, and five speed S-A’s, with the fives having the shifting mechanism on each end of the axle. I have no idea of availability. I’m not saying that the Alfine solution is impossible, though. I just converted a 27inch wheeled Aerospace to 650B. Best, John “wheelson” I appreciate those thoughts John. I have just been pondering if S-A hub would give enough 'benefits' to make it worthwhile over an Alfine, and now I am starting to think the stretch of the rear stays would be a bit too much of a stress (to frame, and mind) to undertake. So essentially I am back to where I started with a great bike with derailleurs that can sometimes be a bit clunky and need tweaking now and then. This could now be a 'place on the back-burner' project, as it isn't essential, but to have a bike that is essentially less hassle and less maintenance and so forth is appealing. |
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robt
Viscount
Posts: 559
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Post by robt on Jun 22, 2023 15:46:24 GMT
Jem,
If your research into Alfine hub widths (‘over locknut dimension’, OLN or OLD) leads you to find that they only come as 135mm (‘mountain bike’ standard), then I’d be wary of trying to cold set (bend) the Sebring’s stays to make that wide a hub fit in its’ original 127mm gap.
I’m not sure whether the SA hubs are available with any narrower OLNs (e.g. 130mm ‘Road’ standard), but the Brompton Wide Ratio (BWR) hub has an OLN of just 115mm, and operates very similarly to the old SA 3-speed. A 6mm washer on each side of a BWR hub should give you a good fit in your Sebring’s current frame. The BWR 3-speed hub can be augmented with 2 sprockets to give 6 ratios, as I have on my Brompton.
Actually constructing a 27” or 700c wheel with this hub and making it work in your frame would be the next challenge. I have all the bits here if you fancy having a day pondering options (over a beer or two?).
Alternatively, we could have a look at what would be required to fit a 'modern' 130mm OLN hubbed wheel, 8/10-speed profiled cassette, complimenting derailleur and a handlebar-mounted trigger shifter to smooth out the rear changing, as I have on Anne's bike.
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Post by brianbutler on Jun 22, 2023 17:36:30 GMT
Jem, If your research into Alfine hub widths (‘over locknut dimension’, OLN or OLD) leads you to find that they only come as 135mm (‘mountain bike’ standard), then I’d be wary of trying to cold set (bend) the Sebring’s stays to make that wide a hub fit in its’ original 127mm gap. I’m not sure whether the SA hubs are available with any narrower OLNs (e.g. 130mm ‘Road’ standard), but the Brompton Wide Ratio (BWR) hub has an OLN of just 115mm, and operates very similarly to the old SA 3-speed. A 6mm washer on each side of a BWR hub should give you a good fit in your Sebring’s current frame. The BWR 3-speed hub can be augmented with 2 sprockets to give 6 ratios, as I have on my Brompton. Actually constructing a 27” or 700c wheel with this hub and making it work in your frame would be the next challenge. I have all the bits here if you fancy having a day pondering options (over a beer or two?). Alternatively, we could have a look at what would be required to fit a 'modern' 130mm OLN hubbed wheel, 8/10-speed profiled cassette, complimenting derailleur and a handlebar-mounted trigger shifter to smooth out the rear changing, as I have on Anne's bike. Modern SA 3-speed hubs (S-RF3 on the PDF specification sheet linked below, are available with OLDs of 127, 119 and 118.
Brian
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robt
Viscount
Posts: 559
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Post by robt on Jun 22, 2023 20:43:31 GMT
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Post by brianbutler on Jun 22, 2023 21:22:23 GMT
Thank you posting that link. I found the hub on US Amazon but had trouble navigating to the UK Amazon site. That is the new SA hub I would use.
The shifter shown on the page you linked is a nice device, much better than the old SA trigger shifters. I ordered the bar end version. The body is the same for all versions and it is available with various mounting options. I removed the body from the bar end mount to look at the innards and found that the body would fit a brazed on down tube shifter boss with a square peg. Neither my Fuji nor Sebring has brazed on bosses. Origin8 makes a clamp-on shifter boss that looks good but seems rather expensive at $25+. Even so, I might get one because it would really make the cabling very tidy (i.e. no cable housings at all.). I might be able to scavenge an appropriate mount from my barrel of shifters.
Brian
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Jem
Viscount
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Posts: 3,390
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Post by Jem on Jun 22, 2023 21:39:20 GMT
Jem, If your research into Alfine hub widths (‘over locknut dimension’, OLN or OLD) leads you to find that they only come as 135mm (‘mountain bike’ standard), then I’d be wary of trying to cold set (bend) the Sebring’s stays to make that wide a hub fit in its’ original 127mm gap. I’m not sure whether the SA hubs are available with any narrower OLNs (e.g. 130mm ‘Road’ standard), but the Brompton Wide Ratio (BWR) hub has an OLN of just 115mm, and operates very similarly to the old SA 3-speed. A 6mm washer on each side of a BWR hub should give you a good fit in your Sebring’s current frame. The BWR 3-speed hub can be augmented with 2 sprockets to give 6 ratios, as I have on my Brompton. Actually constructing a 27” or 700c wheel with this hub and making it work in your frame would be the next challenge. I have all the bits here if you fancy having a day pondering options (over a beer or two?). Alternatively, we could have a look at what would be required to fit a 'modern' 130mm OLN hubbed wheel, 8/10-speed profiled cassette, complimenting derailleur and a handlebar-mounted trigger shifter to smooth out the rear changing, as I have on Anne's bike. Many thanks Rob - I believe I will be over that way a couple of times this summer , so will check when I get those dates and see if we can link up. Much appreciated. I am actually on the process of planning to do the whole route via the canal network, despite it probably taking perhaps 50% longer than the roads/bike lanes. |
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