Jem
Viscount
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Posts: 3,390
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Post by Jem on May 22, 2023 15:03:32 GMT
I went over to self-adhesive patches about 4 years ago and was happy until I bought a new batch recently and had 3 fail in rapid succession
Not sure if it is a bad batch , or something inherent.
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Post by brianbutler on May 22, 2023 19:48:44 GMT
I went over to self-adhesive patches about 4 years ago and was happy until I bought a new batch recently and had 3 fail in rapid succession Not sure if it is a bad batch , or something inherent. I have not had good luck with self-adhesive patches. They always develop a small channel for the air to escape. I bought a package of 100 small round patches that use the vulcanizing compound to keep my repair kits stocked. Once in a while I check to make sure the tubes of compound have not dried up. I bought a big can with a brush in the cap for shop use. I wish I could figure out how to make my own tubes of compound from it.
Brian
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Punctures
May 23, 2023 3:06:20 GMT
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Post by wheelson on May 23, 2023 3:06:20 GMT
I have used both glued and unglued patches, but lately I haven’t experienced that many flats. On multi-day trips I’ve used both puncture resistant (thick) tubes and airless tires with good success. Mrs.W had two flats last year even with Tannus Armor inserts, both flats were the result of failure around the tube valve stem. At the shop, the customer’s attitude seems to be replace rather than repair. We do sell both glued and glueless patches and kits. Best, John “wheelson”
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Post by oldroadietehachapi on May 23, 2023 4:53:00 GMT
As for me, I don't have much confidence in patched tubes. I typically carry a new tube along with some self adhesive patches as a backup. I am extravagant in that when I go to the trouble of changing a tire, I would rather install a new tube; despite it costing more. Of course I remember once (long ago) I flatted and then patched a tubular (we called them sew ups). Remember you basically have to peel the tire off, cut some stitching (hopefully) where it leaks, pull the tube out a bit, patch the tube, stuff it back in, stretch the whole mess back onto the rim and live with a bit of wobble. I was rewarded for my hard work when a mile later, it again went flat . I rarely ride tubulars these days; when I do they, have green goo in them; the goo pretty much counteracts any advantage to having a tubular tire. Nevertheless, if the goo does not stop a leak, I go home; hurrah for the modern clincher.
Cheers Jim
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Post by cusqueno on May 23, 2023 10:31:49 GMT
I went over to self-adhesive patches about 4 years ago and was happy until I bought a new batch recently and had 3 fail in rapid succession Not sure if it is a bad batch , or something inherent. I tried self-adhesive patches some years ago, but they were thick slabs of rubber and didn't stick. I think they were meant for MTB or hybrid bike lower-pressure tyres? Are there any self-adhesive patches made for high pressures? I am happy to patch inner tubes, even more than once, using the traditional adhesive method, but not at the roadside! I remember that a committee of riders patched a tube on (I think) the first DFR. It only took two attempts.
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Jem
Viscount
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Posts: 3,390
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Post by Jem on May 23, 2023 10:51:53 GMT
I went over to self-adhesive patches about 4 years ago and was happy until I bought a new batch recently and had 3 fail in rapid succession Not sure if it is a bad batch , or something inherent. I tried self-adhesive patches some years ago, but they were thick slabs of rubber and didn't stick. I think they were meant for MTB or hybrid bike lower-pressure tyres? Are there any self-adhesive patches made for high pressures? I am happy to patch inner tubes, even more than once, using the traditional adhesive method, but not at the roadside! I remember that a committee of riders patched a tube on (I think) the first DFR. It only took two attempts. I use 'Scabs' brand, self adhesive patches and have them on my relatively high pressure Viscount 27x1 1/4" 's- I have had no trouble with them in the last 3-4 odd years. In fact the problem has come from the low pressure on the steel gravel bike I just bought, at around 40psi. I really don't like a road side puncture repair on my road bikes as it's tough enough at home - my thumbs ache and whole hands hurt after 20 mins grappling, and it can take ages. But just the act of swapping the inner tube would be equally painful for me. Ironically , I have had 4 punctures on this new gravel bike, but the tyres are so sloppy that you hardly need to flick a tyre leaver at them and they 'fall away' and don't need a leaver to install one. So, swings and roundabout on that. More punctures, but a real doddle to fix (but the new packet of Scabs have failed miserably)- I am researching the tubeless options and if my tyres and rims are good to go for that
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Post by brianbutler on May 23, 2023 11:22:32 GMT
I carry a spare tube but try to patch first, unless the puncture is too close to the stem or an existing patch, of which there may be several. My patch reliability improved dramatically after I read the instructions on the patch kit. The key points were allowing the cement to dry before applying the patch, and not trying to peel off the clear plastic square on the top of the patch. It prevents any excess cement around the patch from adhering to the tire casing.
I would not try to patch a hole that required anything larger than the small round patches found in repair kits, but I honestly cannot remember such a hole in 50 years of cycling and hundreds of punctures.
I mount tires so the valve stem is at the center of the tire label (which I make sure is on the right), making it easy to inspect the position on the tire corresponding to the position of the puncture on the tube. At least half the time, the sliver of glass or wire is still in the tire.
Along the local bike trail I sometimes see people walking their bikes and ask if they need help. They usually have a flat that can be patched. They are always grateful and often staggered that such a thing can be done.
Brian
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Post by dracco on May 24, 2023 22:20:33 GMT
I too always carry a spare inner tube (actually, because I'm nerdy that way, usually 2 spare inner tubes: you've got 2 wheels, right?). Usually the spares are ones that have previously been punctured and then repaired. Once I've replaced a punctured tube, I repair the puncture when I've got back home, and add the repaired tube to my expanding collection of spare tubes.
I repair my punctures by the time-honoured process of sandpaper>>glue>>patch, as described by Brian, and usually find that patched tubes are as resilient as new tubes. The only problem I've had recently with using an old tube as the replacement is discovering one that didn't hold pressure because the valve core was defective.
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Post by brianbutler on May 24, 2023 23:05:21 GMT
I too always carry a spare inner tube (actually, because I'm nerdy that way, usually 2 spare inner tubes: you've got 2 wheels, right?). Usually the spares are ones that have previously been punctured and then repaired. Once I've replaced a punctured tube, I repair the puncture when I've got back home, and add the repaired tube to my expanding collection of spare tubes. I repair my punctures by the time-honoured process of sandpaper>>glue>>patch, as described by Brian, and usually find that patched tubes are as resilient as new tubes. The only problem I've had recently with using an old tube as the replacement is discovering one that didn't hold pressure because the valve core was defective. Yes, sandpaper is a critical step.
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Punctures
May 25, 2023 0:13:36 GMT
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Post by wheelson on May 25, 2023 0:13:36 GMT
Also good to check that the valve cores are snug. At the shop, we’ve found new presta valve tubes with removable valves that are not tight out of the box. Best, John “wheelson”
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Post by jazzkifli on May 26, 2023 10:13:07 GMT
I ever used this patch from TipTop without any issues. And I think too, that the sandpaper + a little time to wait is a key to success. KR Viktor
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Post by lighthousejim on May 30, 2023 21:01:19 GMT
I converted to self-adhesive patches quite recently (about 3 years ago) using the Park Tools ones. I always found whenever I went to use traditional patches, the cement had dried up, so the self-adhesive patches were a revelation. I carry a spare tube as well.
Jim
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Post by brianbutler on May 30, 2023 23:40:40 GMT
I converted to self-adhesive patches quite recently (about 3 years ago) using the Park Tools ones. I always found whenever I went to use traditional patches, the cement had dried up, so the self-adhesive patches were a revelation. I carry a spare tube as well. Jim I agree about the cement drying up. Once the tube has been opened it evaporates past the cap. I put a bit of cement IN the cap and that forms a better seal. I would really like to find a way to fill my own tubes or ampules. That or find a source for a bulk supply of cement tubes.
Brian
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Post by brianbutler on May 31, 2023 1:20:05 GMT
This discussion has prompted me to change my flat tire strategy. I carry a spare inner tube and a patch kit. Until now, I used the patch kit first and saved the new inner tube for extraordinary situations. The new procedure is to use the new inner tube first and patch the punctured one at home in a controlled environment using the large can of vulcanizing cement. That preserves the unopened tube of cement in the patch kit. In case of multiple flats in one ride, I would patch the inner tube. However, I plan to always carry at least one unopened tube of cement in case the most recently used one is dried up. I just ordered a bag of 10 tubes of cement for about $10.
Are glueless patches removable? If so, I might use them on the road and replace them with glued patches at home. This further diminshes reliance on the tube of cement.
It is ridiculous how often tire repair materials are defective or depleted when needed. They are similar to fire extinguishers in that respect.
Brian
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Jem
Viscount
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Posts: 3,390
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Post by Jem on May 31, 2023 8:12:44 GMT
Are glueless patches removable? If so, I might use them on the road and replace them with glued patches at home. This further diminshes reliance on the tube of cement. The ones I use called 'Scabs' will peel off at a later date, and upon reflecting on that , it might suggest that they are inherently less reliable ?
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Post by oldroadietehachapi on May 31, 2023 19:06:48 GMT
I rummaged about and found this old inner tube patch clamp. It is just like the one I had back on the farm as a kid; only $8 on eBay, so I couldn't resist. These were used with the old vulcanizing hot patches (you lit them on fire) of days long gone by. This video shows one being used, but improperly, as the patch was not held in a clamp. I learned to do my own hot patches at Pete's Texaco and garage, in what was then the small town (now urbanized) of Simi Valley California. Pete would show us how to patch our tubes once - provided we bought the patch kit from him. Later, we might be allowed to used the clamp setup at his gas station. Eventually I acquired smaller a clamp that worked for my bike tubes (they made small patches for bike tubes). Hot patches (that used fire)were deemed unhealthy and banned long ago. They worked really well; wish they still made them. FWIW, they smelled like road flares when the burned.
Some cyclists today do a sort of hot patching by setting the glue alight; I have never tried it or seen it done. Nevertheless, I can't help but wonder if the clamp might help when installing glue patches?
Cheers Jim
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Jem
Viscount
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Posts: 3,390
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Post by Jem on May 31, 2023 19:35:06 GMT
Well, despite the writer of the article saying he has a certain level of scepticism for 'hot patching', I am certainly up for trying this, just for the fun/experimental/mild danger of it.I will just construct something from a clamp to hold it once patch is applied.
a comment at the end of the article "A related method is to stretch out a small piece of road tar, use a lighter to get it really melty, and then press it onto the tube. Useful in a pinch, and I rode on such a patch for 500-800 miles before swapping tubes (and not because the patch gave way!)."
This appeals greatly to me as well, just for the smell of road tar going all melty. When we were kids, and the road tar lorry came to surface the road, we all sat out inhaling it - one younger friend of mine loved it so much he put a small tarred piece of gravel in his nostril opening to get extra vapours, and then sucked up so hard the piece became logded toward the top of his nose and caused quite a big issue.
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Post by brianbutler on May 31, 2023 22:41:52 GMT
Well, despite the writer of the article saying he has a certain level of scepticism for 'hot patching', I am certainly up for trying this, just for the fun/experimental/mild danger of it.I will just construct something from a clamp to hold it once patch is applied. a comment at the end of the article "A related method is to stretch out a small piece of road tar, use a lighter to get it really melty, and then press it onto the tube. Useful in a pinch, and I rode on such a patch for 500-800 miles before swapping tubes (and not because the patch gave way!)." This appeals greatly to me as well, just for the smell of road tar going all melty. When we were kids, and the road tar lorry came to surface the road, we all sat out inhaling it - one younger friend of mine loved it so much he put a small tarred piece of gravel in his nostril opening to get extra vapours, and then sucked up so hard the piece became logded toward the top of his nose and caused quite a big issue. Hahaha, Jem. As a young kid, I lived in semi-rural Ohio and we also waited for the tar lorry (well, truck), then dug out a plug and chewed it! And it does have a comforting smell, as do creosote soaked telephone poles, driveway sealer, and gasoline.
Brian
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Post by oldroadietehachapi on Jun 1, 2023 4:43:12 GMT
I agree on comforting petroleum smells; my wife thinks differently, so maybe it is a guy thing. As for chewing road tar, or sticking it up my nose; somehow, it never occurred to me to do such a thing.
Cheers Jim
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Jem
Viscount
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Posts: 3,390
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Post by Jem on Jun 1, 2023 6:36:01 GMT
Well, despite the writer of the article saying he has a certain level of scepticism for 'hot patching', I am certainly up for trying this, just for the fun/experimental/mild danger of it.I will just construct something from a clamp to hold it once patch is applied. a comment at the end of the article "A related method is to stretch out a small piece of road tar, use a lighter to get it really melty, and then press it onto the tube. Useful in a pinch, and I rode on such a patch for 500-800 miles before swapping tubes (and not because the patch gave way!)." This appeals greatly to me as well, just for the smell of road tar going all melty. When we were kids, and the road tar lorry came to surface the road, we all sat out inhaling it - one younger friend of mine loved it so much he put a small tarred piece of gravel in his nostril opening to get extra vapours, and then sucked up so hard the piece became logded toward the top of his nose and caused quite a big issue. creosote soaked telephone poles
Yes please! Real creosote is no longer for retail sale here , and I thought possibly that the only silver lining of Brexit was that we could take back control of our own British creosote H&S laws to see it back on the shelves - but unfortunately not.
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Post by brianbutler on Jun 1, 2023 11:06:15 GMT
I rummaged about and found this old inner tube patch clamp. It is just like the one I had back on the farm as a kid; only $8 on eBay, so I couldn't resist. These were used with the old vulcanizing hot patches (you lit them on fire) of days long gone by. This video shows one being used, but improperly, as the patch was not held in a clamp. I learned to do my own hot patches at Pete's Texaco and garage, in what was then the small town (now urbanized) of Simi Valley California. Pete would show us how to patch our tubes once - provided we bought the patch kit from him. Later, we might be allowed to used the clamp setup at his gas station. Eventually I acquired smaller a clamp that worked for my bike tubes (they made small patches for bike tubes). Hot patches (that used fire)were deemed unhealthy and banned long ago. They worked really well; wish they still made them. FWIW, they smelled like road flares when the burned.
Some cyclists today do a sort of hot patching by setting the glue alight; I have never tried it or seen it done. Nevertheless, I can't help but wonder if the clamp might help when installing glue patches?
Cheers Jim
Jim, I keep looking at this clamp and don't understand the prongs. Does another separate plate sit on the patch during clamping? I use a spring loaded carpentry clamp like this one when I patch a tube in the shop. On the road, I figure the pressure of inflation is good enough, probably even better.
Brian
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Post by wheelson on Jun 1, 2023 12:37:50 GMT
The patch came attached to a little framework that housed the combustible. Clamp on the tube, scratch the combustible material, and fire it up. I saw many of these used back in my youth at service stations, when I stopped by with my Dad back in the pre-tubeless tire day. I have one of those clamps, gifted by my son-in-law who found it in an antique store. He didn’t have have a clue what it was but he knows I’m a tool fiend. As far a lighting the patch glue with a match or lighter, yes I’ve done that and it works well but caution, only let it burn for a second or so else the tube will go up in flames! Best, John “wheelson”
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Post by oldroadietehachapi on Jun 1, 2023 13:38:20 GMT
On Flickr, I found this picture of a couple of patches and a clamp. Each patch was in a tin, the edges of the tin were held down by the clamp. The patches came in sizes which the clamp could accommodate (see the flat clamping area). The hot patch kits I used had a variety of patch sizes; I only used the smallest. The large patches were saved for farm tools and machinery. John is right, I was told that patches for a heavy tube (when used on a little bicycle tube) could melt the tube.
Cheers Jim
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