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Post by jazzkifli on Mar 14, 2023 9:19:06 GMT
Hi there, I noticed, that the chainring/crankset (I'm not sure how to name it correctly) on my Aerospace GP is about 1-3 mm loose. I try to show it with a short video:  Untitled by Viktor Deak, on Flickr  Untitled by Viktor Deak, on Flickr  Untitled by Viktor Deak, on Flickr It is a real problem, or can I leave so? Honestly, I fear from the BB replacing  Many thanks in advance jazzkifli |
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Post by brianbutler on Mar 14, 2023 13:12:06 GMT
Victor, welcome to the forum from Boston, USA.
First check where it is loose. It could be the crank bolts but it would be unusual for both to be loose. If the entire BB is loose, then the BB bearings are worn out or damaged. New bearings are easily available and cheap. The job of replacing them is fairly easy but requires patience and a couple of tools, but nothing too crazy.
If you decide to replace the BB (which I recommend), please let us know in this thread. Most of the members here have replaced them multiple times and can offer a lot of good and detailed advice.
Brian
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Post by jazzkifli on Mar 14, 2023 13:29:58 GMT
Victor, welcome to the forum from Boston, USA. First check where it is loose. It could be the crank bolts but it would be unusual for both to be loose. If the entire BB is loose, then the BB bearings are worn out or damaged. New bearings are easily available and cheap. The job of replacing them is fairly easy but requires patience and a couple of tools, but nothing too crazy. If you decide to replace the BB (which I recommend), please let us know in this thread. Most of the members here have replaced them multiple times and can offer a lot of good and detailed advice. Brian Hi Brian, Thanks for the infos. I already bought some things (bearings, tool for the circlips) for the replacement, but I'm still afraid. For example, I'm not sure hot to remove the spindle from BB (with a huge hammer?) and how to install the bearings with the spindle to the BB. But this is a good advice to prrof what is loose there. I check it tonight and I come back with the result. KR Viktor |
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Post by brianbutler on Mar 14, 2023 14:21:42 GMT
The removal process is like this: 1. Remove the crank bolts.
3. Remove the circlips.
4. Knock out the spindle with a hammer, but PROTECT THE END OF THE SPINDLE with a block of wood. You do not want to damage the threads. Do not do this step with a crank bolt installed in the spindle because it can damage the threads. There are two possible results:
4a. Often step 4 also knocks out one of the bearings, still attached to the spindle. In that case, remove the bearing still in the frame by inserting a pipe through the BB and knocking it out. Don't worry about damaging it because it is being replaced. Remove the bearing still attached to the spindle by resting the bearing on the top of vise with the spindle hanging through the jaws. USING A BLOCK OF WOOD, knock the spindle through the bearing to remove it. Try not to let it fall because it might damage the threads.
4b. Sometimes both bearings are stuck in the frame and the spindle moves through both. In that case, you need a soft (brass) drift punch to knock the spindle all the way through without damaging the threads. Then punch out both bearings.
5. Clean the inside of the BB shell and the spindle thoroughly.
The installation process depends on what tools you have available but the steps are the same. In all cases, protect the ends of the spindle. Also use washers or special "drifts" to protect the bearings. The washers or drifts have a hole large enough for the spindle and cover the sides of both bearing races so pressure is applied uniformly.
1. Grease the spindle and install a bearing onto the right side of the spindle. This can be done with an arbor press if available. Otherwise support the bearing on a vise with washers protecting the bearing. Using a wood block, tap in the spindle until a circlip can be installed. Adjust until there is minimal space between the circlip and the bearing.
2. Grease the bottom bottom bracket. Using washers and a large socket, tap or press the right bearing and spindle into the BB.
3. Grease the left end of the spindle and bottom bracket. Support right end of the spindle on a block of wood.
4. Place a bearing over the left end of the spindle.
5. Using washers to protect the bearing and a large socket, tap the bearing over the spindle and into the BB far enough to install a circlip.
6. If you have installed both circlips, you are done. Otherwise, you might have to tap the right spindle/bearing back in and repeat step 5. You might have to do this several times to get both circlips installed.
Please do not follow this advice until some other members have reviewed and and corrected any bad information I might have written. They may also have better advice.
Even if something goes wrong and the spindle or crank bolts gets damaged, all is not lost. Search for the "Wheelson Hack" on this forum for a clever way to use the spindle from a cheap cartridge BB as a replacement.
Brian
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Post by jazzkifli on Mar 14, 2023 14:28:12 GMT
Wow Brian, many thanks for this list. So it seems not so horrible  Viktor |
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Post by jazzkifli on Mar 14, 2023 15:00:58 GMT
I have a tool like this, but unfortunately I can't get the crankarms with this thing out. Therefore I bought a bearing expressor, I think this sould work for me. I have 1 more thing, with my chainring. 2 bolt from the middle circle is very nice stucked and I think I have to drill them out.  Untitled by Viktor Deak, on Flickr I would like to buy some new bolts, but I didn't find on the internet. I measured that the outer bolt (female) has a diameter with 6.6 mm, but I find only with 10 mm. I'm wrong? Many thanks in advance Viktor |
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Post by oldroadietehachapi on Mar 14, 2023 15:07:22 GMT
I replaced my Viscount BB with a White Industries titanium BB. These photos may help.
All the Best Jim
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Post by brianbutler on Mar 14, 2023 15:34:07 GMT
I have a tool like this, but unfortunately I can't get the crankarms with this thing out. Therefore I bought a bearing expressor, I think this sould work for me. I have 1 more thing, with my chainring. 2 bolt from the middle circle is very nice stucked and I think I have to drill them out. Untitled by Viktor Deak, on Flickr I would like to buy some new bolts, but I didn't find on the internet. I measured that the outer bolt (female) has a diameter with 6.6 mm, but I find only with 10 mm. I'm wrong? Many thanks in advance Viktor
I have not had good luck with that type of gear puller. Let me ask a couple of questions about your problems using the Park crank extractor: First, are the crank bolts removed? I ask this question because once I stupidly tried to pull a crank arm without removing the bolt. Obviously it did not remove the crank and it stripped the threads.
Second, are the threads already stripped? That would prevent the tool from working.
Otherwise, try that tool again. Back out the screw in the tool so you can firmly seat the tool into the crank arm. Then, sometimes it takes quite a bit of pressure but I have always been able to remove the cranks from dozens of bikes.
For the stuck bolts, you can drill them if you know you can get replacements. Otherwise I would soak the whole chainset assembly in a rust remover for a day or two. I always use a product called "Evaporust". I don't know if it is available in Europe. Be careful with other products because acids and alkalis can damage the aluminum chainrings. Also try trteating the screws with penetrating oil for a day or two.
Brian
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Post by lighthousejim on Mar 14, 2023 21:58:56 GMT
Hi Viktor,
Try a bit of heat on the stuck bolts. A hot air gun or a plumber's blowtorch should be enough. The aluminium will expand faster and more than the steel and may release the bolts.
Good luck,
Jim
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Jem
Viscount
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Posts: 3,390 
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Post by Jem on Mar 15, 2023 7:51:52 GMT
Tip - I extracted one a few years ago, and I used Plusgas to get it loose. I let it soak overnight and then soaked again next day. I am convinced Plusgas was the key ingredient.
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Post by jazzkifli on Mar 15, 2023 10:38:49 GMT
Yesterday I was able to proof the location of the movement. I see so, that the bearing is not in a good shape. Here is a short video. flic.kr/p/2oneqHbKR Viktor |
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Post by brianbutler on Mar 15, 2023 11:43:50 GMT
Yesterday I was able to proof the location of the movement. I see so, that the bearing is not in a good shape. Here is a short video. flic.kr/p/2oneqHbKR Viktor Yes, the bearings are bad so you should replace them. There is quite a bit of rust on the visible parts of the BB and crank set, so plenty of penetrating oil (PlusGas, WD-40, or whatever product you can get.) Also put some in the cranks so it soaks into the square joint between the spindle and crank arm. That might make it easier to remove the cranks. Patience, repetition, and ingenuity!
Brian
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Post by jazzkifli on Mar 15, 2023 12:04:41 GMT
Yesterday I was able to proof the location of the movement. I see so, that the bearing is not in a good shape. Here is a short video. flic.kr/p/2oneqHbKR Viktor Yes, the bearings are bad so you should replace them. There is quite a bit of rust on the visible parts of the BB and crank set, so plenty of penetrating oil (PlusGas, WD-40, or whatever product you can get.) Also put some in the cranks so it soaks into the square joint between the spindle and crank arm. That might make it easier to remove the cranks. Patience, repetition, and ingenuity!
Brian
Thanks Brian, That means that I can use WD40 too for soaking? That would be great, because I have at home a plenty of WD40 :-) KR Viktor |
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Post by brianbutler on Mar 15, 2023 20:00:42 GMT
Yes, the bearings are bad so you should replace them. There is quite a bit of rust on the visible parts of the BB and crank set, so plenty of penetrating oil (PlusGas, WD-40, or whatever product you can get.) Also put some in the cranks so it soaks into the square joint between the spindle and crank arm. That might make it easier to remove the cranks. Patience, repetition, and ingenuity!
Brian
Thanks Brian, That means that I can use WD40 too for soaking? That would be great, because I have at home a plenty of WD40 :-) KR Viktor Sure, it might work and cannot hurt, so give it a try.
Brian
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Post by jazzkifli on Mar 15, 2023 20:11:09 GMT
Okay, thank you very much 🙂
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Jem
Viscount
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Posts: 3,390
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Post by Jem on Apr 5, 2023 6:41:12 GMT
I would like to buy some new bolts, but I didn't find on the internet. I measured that the outer bolt (female) has a diameter with 6.6 mm, but I find only with 10 mm. I'm wrong? Many thanks in advance Viktor Another member just posted this up, will this help in your search? viscountandlambert.boards.net/post/18345 |
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Post by jazzkifli on May 17, 2023 12:03:39 GMT
I would like to buy some new bolts, but I didn't find on the internet. I measured that the outer bolt (female) has a diameter with 6.6 mm, but I find only with 10 mm. I'm wrong? Many thanks in advance Viktor Another member just posted this up, will this help in your search? viscountandlambert.boards.net/post/18345Hi Jem, I found this bolt on the internet and this works perfectly for me KR Viktor |
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Post by jazzkifli on May 17, 2023 12:14:16 GMT
I was able to remove the spindle with method from Robt, many thanks for it viscountandlambert.boards.net/post/6996"I also managed to remove my bottom bracket axle and its crusty 30+ year-old cartridge bearings. Having tried hitting the axle with my trusty mallet to no effect, brute force became my friend again. I pulled off the bearings' outer seals and took a 3mm drill to the bearing cages, destroying them as much as possible. This allowed me to move all the ball bearings to one side of the axle, whereupon the axle could move away enough to allow the ball bearings to be plucked out one by one. Once the ball bearings and the bits of cage were all out, the axle pulled through the BB shell, leaving me with just the outer races to knock from the shell with a punch (done) and the inner races to remove from the axle (not yet done)."By the assemble I followed the list from Brian: "1. Grease the spindle and install a bearing onto the right side of the spindle. This can be done with an arbor press if available. Otherwise support the bearing on a vise with washers protecting the bearing. Using a wood block, tap in the spindle until a circlip can be installed. Adjust until there is minimal space between the circlip and the bearing.2. Grease the bottom bottom bracket. Using washers and a large socket, tap or press the right bearing and spindle into the BB.3. Grease the left end of the spindle and bottom bracket. Support right end of the spindle on a block of wood.4. Place a bearing over the left end of the spindle.5. Using washers to protect the bearing and a large socket, tap the bearing over the spindle and into the BB far enough to install a circlip.6. If you have installed both circlips, you are done. Otherwise, you might have to tap the right spindle/bearing back in and repeat step 5. You might have to do this several times to get both circlips installed."Everything went smooth and now the spindle is very stable. Thank you once again for everyone  KR Viktor |
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Post by brianbutler on May 17, 2023 14:27:03 GMT
Congratulations! It is satisfying to install one of those bottom brackets successfully.
I will also report that I now have about 1000 miles on my "Wheelson hack" bottom bracket on an Aerospace GP. It working fine and still installed properly. If you are not familiar with this hack, it uses the spindle from a disassembled cartridge bottom bracket in place of the original Viscount spindle. The replacement has no circlips but the pressed bearings have not moved at all. Search for "Wheelson hack" on this forum for more details. And, John, thanks again for this idea. It is a gem.
Brian
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Post by wheelson on May 17, 2023 15:13:19 GMT
Excellent work replacing the bottom bracket bearings.
Brian: Happy that the hack has worked well for you. It’s on my first Viscount, but not so many miles as yours. Viscount’s two and three have been tapped Italian, but the pseudo-Supa will get the hack treatment as I fear the tapping process might chip the chrome plating.
Again, I’m glad the hack is working.
Best,
John “wheelson”
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