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Post by oldroadietehachapi on Oct 1, 2021 14:41:01 GMT
I am just old enough to see things differently than even slightly younger cyclists. Many things changed during the cycling boom of the seventies; some of us go back farther than that. Some younger folks think a frame with a claw type derailleur hanger to not be worth having, much less restoring. I see it differently. Until the early seventies, it was not uncommon to see quality frames, made from double butted tubing (Reynolds, Columbus and others) with a claw type derailleur hanger. Of course, the very best frames did have nice forged dropouts with integral derailleur hangers. A nice frame with a Simplex dropout was perfect for French derailleurs, like Simplex, but not Campagnolo. Campagnolo dropouts had a different hanger, hence no Simplex derailleurs for them. Unknown to our younger brethren, derailleur hangers were not standardized until maybe the late seventies. Mid level frames, often with nice tubing and lugs, needed to be less specialized. One never knew which derailleur the marketing types might specify; if built for a claw, anything worked. The Japanese seem to have practiced this a bit longer than the rest; perhaps being cautious. Dropouts for claw hangers often were nicely made, forged, with a raised surface for the axle slot. Of course the really cheap dropouts were just a stamped piece of flat metal; you still see them today.
The hanger differences are easy to see when you compare a variety of early claw types as shown below.
Ride Safe Jim
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Post by wheelson on Oct 1, 2021 15:55:17 GMT
I am just old enough to see things differently than even slightly younger cyclists. Many things changed during the cycling boom of the seventies; some of us go back farther than that. Some younger folks think a frame with a claw type derailleur hanger to not be worth having, much less restoring. I see it differently. Until the early seventies, it was not uncommon to see quality frames, made from double butted tubing (Reynolds, Columbus and others) with a claw type derailleur hanger. Of course, the very best frames did have nice forged dropouts with integral derailleur hangers. A nice frame with a Simplex dropout was perfect for French derailleurs, like Simplex, but not Campagnolo. Campagnolo dropouts had a different hanger, hence no Simplex derailleurs for them. Unknown to our younger brethren, derailleur hangers were not standardized until maybe the late seventies. Mid level frames, often with nice tubing and lugs, needed to be less specialized. One never knew which derailleur the marketing types might specify; if built for a claw, anything worked. The Japanese seem to have practiced this a bit longer than the rest; perhaps being cautious. Dropouts for claw hangers often were nicely made, forged, with a raised surface for the axle slot. Of course the really cheap dropouts were just a stamped piece of flat metal; you still see them today.
The hanger differences are easy to see when you compare a variety of early claw types as shown below.
Ride Safe Jim
Excellent work, Jim. Just one comment also relating to another thread as well - the Huret rear dropout (or fork end as some say) was used by Schwinn on the ‘78 Superior. As you mention above, this lack of claw prevents the use of many derailleurs without creative adapting. But guess what, the Shimano Crane/Titlist/ Tourney that we all know and love from the Viscount world mounts and performs perfectly. Best, John “wheelson” |
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Post by brianbutler on Oct 1, 2021 15:56:04 GMT
Quite a few of my bikes have claw hangers. I don't see any particular problem with them except:
1. The quick release skewer has to be a little longer to pass through the dropout and the hanger.
2. You often need an adjustable spacer that fits into the left dropout. These have a very specialized shape and are unfortunately scarce as hens teeth. I have searched far and wide for a source of new ones with no luck. If anybody knows of one, please post it.
Brian
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Post by oldroadietehachapi on Oct 1, 2021 16:12:53 GMT
Quite a few of my bikes have claw hangers. I don't see any particular problem with them except: 1. The quick release skewer has to be a little longer to pass through the dropout and the hanger. 2. You often need an adjustable spacer that fits into the left dropout. These have a very specialized shape and are unfortunately scarce as hens teeth. I have searched far and wide for a source of new ones with no luck. If anybody knows of one, please post it. Brian Try this link; they often popup on eBay. Sadly, they tend to be pricey.
Cheers
Jim
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Post by brianbutler on Oct 1, 2021 21:16:38 GMT
Thanks for the link, but the one those guys sell is a very clunky design and they might even have it inside out in their photo. I want ones like this:
This might be a a good candidate for 3D printing or an entry level aluminum casting project. It would be easy to make a perfect form by pressing clay into the dropout and trimming the "lip" for a nice fit. And if I can sell them for $17 a pop it would definitely be worth trying. Sell three and get a new bike or two.
Brian
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Post by oldroadietehachapi on Oct 1, 2021 23:00:38 GMT
I have a new in package Dura Ace dropout spacer that looks just like that. If you send a message, I will be happy to mail it to you.
Cheers Jim
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Post by brianbutler on Oct 1, 2021 23:52:11 GMT
Thanks for the offer, Jim. I actually have enough to last a while. I always check the bikes at the dump for certain parts. The ones I have look like the one you have but I'm pretty sure they are not Dura-Ace. I really have to start manufacturing these things now that they are up to $36 dollars (or 0.0008 bitcoins, which somehow looks like a more realistic price.)
Brian
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Post by oldroadietehachapi on Oct 2, 2021 0:28:32 GMT
I think the design can be improved upon with some aluminum and a mill.
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Post by brianbutler on Oct 2, 2021 1:38:39 GMT
I think the design can be improved upon with some aluminum and a mill. Agreed, Stainless would be good, too, since one part is threaded and I am a menace with threading steel into aluminum. |
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Post by oldroadietehachapi on Oct 2, 2021 2:35:50 GMT
Stainless would be cool!
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