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Post by brianbutler on Sept 26, 2020 13:22:25 GMT
This is the "Middlebury" Aerospace Pro, so named because it was acquired in Middlebury, Vermont from a Professor Emeritus at Middlebury College. These are the "as found" photos. I would appreciate all comments about the orginality of components, ideas for restoration, etc.
Brian
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Jem
Viscount
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Posts: 3,389
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Post by Jem on Sept 26, 2020 17:06:59 GMT
Looking good to me Brian. The rear mech is great but would it be original? I don't think the time line fits ? But I'd rather have that long arm 600 than many other things that it might have been swapped out for.
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Post by brianbutler on Sept 26, 2020 18:16:11 GMT
I have a long cage Crane GS if that's what belongs there, but what about the front derailleur? Is Titlist correct?
I had a good laugh about the mismatched crank arms. Obviously the left one has been replaced.
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Post by franco on Sept 26, 2020 18:34:10 GMT
Looks good for the money Brian.
According to the catalogue the Titlist front derailleur is original.
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Jem
Viscount
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Posts: 3,389
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Post by Jem on Sept 26, 2020 18:36:46 GMT
Looks good for the money Brian. According to the catalogue the Titlist front derailleur is original. +1
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Post by wheelson on Sept 26, 2020 23:34:01 GMT
Titlist front and a Crane long cage and it will look good and shift even better, at least a 30t low rear gear, perhaps even a 32t. Best. John "wheelson"
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Post by triitout on Sept 27, 2020 0:58:20 GMT
If you want to get the most noticeable improvement in sportiness and ride quality, a new wheel set may be the best bang for the buck. There's a good chance your wheels are the original 700c tubulars. I put these on my Pro from Velomine.com www.velomine.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=235_243&products_id=2114&zenid=3tr1auffr3ab03t2ftub3gs6i5I like these more than the wheel sets they list for LP-18 rims. The polished alloy just has a more retro look. There is also a 27" version. Huge improvement over the original and at a good price. I have Viscounts with their wheel sets with thousands of miles and no issues. The Crane long cage RD should pair well with your skip tooth freewheel and new chain for New Hampshire!
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Post by brianbutler on Sept 27, 2020 12:57:55 GMT
Good idea if my rims turn out to be banged up. I haven't put them on the truing stand yet. Mine are clinchers, not sew-ups. I have used the Sun CR-18 rims on a number of bikes, lacing them onto the vintage hubs. I agree, this is usually a great improvement and no comparison if the original wheels were steel. I might start switching to 700C wheels/tires on restorations because 27" tires seem to be getting harder to find. I always use Panaracer Pasela gumwalls but nobody has them at the moment and they are on backorder, hopefully not out of production. When they come back I'll order a dozen.
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Post by brianbutler on Sept 27, 2020 15:57:15 GMT
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Post by franco on Sept 28, 2020 9:44:32 GMT
I’ve lost track here, are you saying the seat tube is cracked at the weld and the seller is denying knowledge?
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Post by brianbutler on Sept 28, 2020 12:00:31 GMT
I’ve lost track here, are you saying the seat tube is cracked at the weld and the seller is denying knowledge? I'm sure the seller was completely unaware of the crack. He probably used it for years that way. The "as found" photos are ones I took after I got the bike home. I didn't notice the crack at that time. I noticed it when I was working on removing the BB and crank. I'll see if it worth repairing and go from there. The bike did yield a lot of good parts that I can use in a future project if this frame cannot be saved.
Brian
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Post by franco on Sept 28, 2020 15:23:56 GMT
I’ve lost track here, are you saying the seat tube is cracked at the weld and the seller is denying knowledge? I'm sure the seller was completely unaware of the crack. He probably used it for years that way. The "as found" photos are ones I took after I got the bike home. I didn't notice the crack at that time. I noticed it when I was working on removing the BB and crank. I'll see if it worth repairing and go from there. The bike did yield a lot of good parts that I can use in a future project if this frame cannot be saved.
Brian
Damn, that’s a shame.
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Post by brianbutler on Sept 29, 2020 14:36:21 GMT
Here is a photo of the crack after I cleaned the joint with a brass wire wheel. I sent the photo out to a nearby bike shop that does restorations to see what they think about it.
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Post by oldroadietehachapi on Sept 29, 2020 19:11:38 GMT
I am closely watching and interested to see the result!
Cheers Jim
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Post by franco on Sept 29, 2020 21:29:49 GMT
Be good if you can get it fixed Brian, close to the weld though which from what I’ve read is more difficult than say the middle of a tube. Keep us posted!
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Post by brianbutler on Oct 3, 2020 0:48:22 GMT
No reply from the bike shop regarding frame repair so I will have to go elsewhere or figure out how to do it myself, as usual. In the interim, I have disassembled the Pro and started disassembling and cleaning the components. Evidently the maintenance program for this bike was to add oil, period. This procedure was used everywhere there was a contact between two metal parts and the oil used was something thick like motor oil. As a result, everything is coated with a crust of dried oil and dirt. This material does not dissolve easily in mineral spirits and requires scraping with a razor blade before using solvents. On the plus side, there is very little rust! I also ordered a crank extractor tool that handles both TA and Stronglight threads. It comes from Poland so I won't receive it for a couple of weeks. Here is the link in case anyone else needs this tool: www.ebay.com/itm/2in1-Stronglight-Specialites-T-A-removal-remover-crankset-Arm-Puller-Tool-NEW/222325878325?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2648
Brian
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Post by brianbutler on Oct 8, 2020 12:29:53 GMT
I am nearing the end of refurbishing the components and grinding out the BB shell on the Middlebury Aerospace Pro and will post photos here when complete. This is probably the most crusty bike I have worked on. Everything was caked with a very durable thick patina of dried oil and dirt. There were also quite a few damaged components and frame problems:
Hairline crack in the seat tube near the bottom bracket shell. Bent derailleur hanger on forged dropout. Left crank replaced with non-matching one. Both hubs have bent flanges. Bearings in both hubs are severely stuck. Shimano 600 long cage RD has damaged cage stop (I think this will be OK when reassembled) Damaged bottom bracket spindle threads (can probable be chased) Many replaced or missing spokes. Broken quill on one of the pedals. Paint and decals too far gone keep.
At the moment I plan to strip the frame and check for other damage. Then I will be at a decision point. I can try to fix the frame and restore the bike using the good components and the remainder from a First Generation Lambert Pro project bike. Or I can take the the good components and use them to finish the Lambert. The Lambert frame is is good shape (lugged Aerospace) but it is 62mm, whereas the Viscount Pro is A 56mm, my preferred size.
I would like to poll the group to find out which bike would be a better restoration candidate. My inclination is to do the Lambert since it is more unusual and the frame is in better condition. However, it would be more of a collection piece than a rider due to the large frame size. Tell me what you think.
Brian
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Post by wheelson on Oct 8, 2020 21:22:10 GMT
Too bad the Lambert frame is too large for you (or me, I'm a 56mm preferred). I really like the looks of the lugged frame. One has been hanging out on US eBay for a while, white with maroon/burgundy panels. Way too expensive for me, I have too many outstanding projects, and I should be downsizing anyway.
It probably makes more sense to do the Lambert project IF you can handle a collection piece instead of a rider. How many Lambert components do you have for that project AND the Middlebury AP? If you go that route and need any Lambert-logo components, let me know, I have a bunch of Lambert components but no Lambert - only three Viscounts.
At this point if you have no source to repair the MAP frame, personally I'd hang it up for future project consideration and go ahead with the Lambert. It's also possible you might find a home for the oversized Lambert to finance another project or to repair the MAP.
Best, John (wheelson)
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Post by brianbutler on Oct 9, 2020 2:16:50 GMT
John, thanks for your thoughts. I have been thinking along those lines as well. I have everything (Lambert branded) for the Lambert except one brake caliper. The Lambert came with a triple (pre-porthole) chainset. The Viscount has the porthole double. Both are installed on TA Cyclotouriste cranks, so I could make a porthole triple for either bike if desired.
After I build one bike, I will be short a left TA crank arm and I will have a damaged but usable right pedal. I have an NOS long cage Crane that I would use on the build bike. The Lambert did not come with an RD. The Viscount has a long cage Shimano 600, which is nice but probably not right. Finally, the Lambert has a very nice aluminum replacement fork and Campagnolo headset but the fork has a waterfall crown, not particularly vintage looking but super lightweight. The Viscount has the Tange chrome recall fork, obviously too short for the Lambert.
I'll probably go ahead and recondition the Lambert components while I decide what to do. No rush. It will be a winter project. I would definitely keep the 56cm Viscount frame and fork and continue to look for a way to get it repaired.
BTW, I have seen that Lambert Pro on eBay and like that purple color. I would repaint the Lambert so I could use any color. It is currently blue and white.
Brian
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Post by wheelson on Oct 9, 2020 15:56:43 GMT
Brian, I have an extra Lambert branded caliper and also likely an undamaged right pedal. Also, some other odds and ends Lambert "L" branded instead of Viscount "V" and several porthole chainrings in various stages of wear. Let me know your address and I'll send what you need. My Lambert/Viscount restorations stop at the three I have plus one future small frame Viscount for my wife, and no doubt I have accumulated way more bike stuff than I'll ever need.
My address is wheelson2011 AT gmail DOT COM you or anyone else want to contact me off list. I'm US based here in Western Pennsylvania so shipping to the "lower USA 48" is no problem, anywhere else, we'll give it a shot. At 72 I'm trying to downsize but fear it's a losing battle!
Best, John "wheelson"
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Post by franco on Oct 9, 2020 18:19:51 GMT
Does the Lambert need repainting Brian?
Just thinking, as a collector piece I would choose to do the Lambert but losing the original finish would devalue it if you came to sell it later on. If it has a light patina it isn’t usually a problem, but obviously if there is rust and damaged decals it’s different.
I don’t recall having seen a picture of your Lambert.
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Post by brianbutler on Oct 9, 2020 19:34:39 GMT
John, I will keep that in mind. If I do the Lambert, I will take you up on the caliper. Thanks.
Franco, the Lambert frame has many dings, scratches, and touch-ups with close-but-wrong fingernail polish or something. I got this bike for free in a pile of interesting bikes. It is currently disassembled and some of the components are refurbished. I will put up some pictures soon, especially if I decide to refurbish it.
I don't think the value will be great regardless of what I do to the paint. I thought it might be a good candidate to build some refinishing expertise.
Brian
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Post by franco on Oct 9, 2020 21:16:36 GMT
John, I will keep that in mind. If I do the Lambert, I will take you up on the caliper. Thanks. Franco, the Lambert frame has many dings, scratches, and touch-ups with close-but-wrong fingernail polish or something. I got this bike for free in a pile of interesting bikes. It is currently disassembled and some of the components are refurbished. I will put up some pictures soon, especially if I decide to refurbish it. I don't think the value will be great regardless of what I do to the paint. I thought it might be a good candidate to build some refinishing expertise. Brian Got you. A bit like the Mixte I recently did maybe, although I went with preserving time rather than a repaint. Look forward to seeing a picture of it.
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Post by brianbutler on Oct 14, 2020 20:09:12 GMT
The Aerospace Pro is completely disassembled and cleaned. A few components are reassembled. Here are some photos:
If I can get the frame repaired, I will build this bike. Other wise I might build the Gen 1 Lambert Grand Prix Professional using some of these components. Everything is going on the shelf until I decide.
Brian
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Post by franco on Oct 15, 2020 18:16:11 GMT
Great detailed pictures. Quite useful to see parts disassembled too if someone hasn’t worked on them before.
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Jem
Viscount
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Posts: 3,389
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Post by Jem on Oct 15, 2020 19:59:07 GMT
I really like the way you've laid this parts out for photographing Brian - very artistic!
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Post by oldroadietehachapi on Oct 21, 2020 15:38:47 GMT
There is a discussion of a similar frame problem on Classic Rendezvous. The crack in the discussion is on the BB shell. It is not the same as your crack, which is in the tubing above the braze line. Nevertheless. there was a simple suggestion that might be worth a try. Of course, you may ruin a frame, that may be all ready have been ruined.
"I'd try the less intrusive fix first, as replacing the BB shell is a heart transplant, Can be done but sourcing the shell is the easy bit. Grind a V-notch and Tig weld it up with silicon bronze. That will mess up the paint the least. Should be good enough and else it is not much effort down the drain"
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Post by brianbutler on Oct 21, 2020 21:48:18 GMT
I do plan to braze the crack. I think that is what he is suggesting when he says "TIG weld it up with silicon bronze", which I'm not sure makes sense. With brazing, you melt the brazing medium (silicon bronze) and flow it into the crack. With TIG welding or any other type of welding you melt the parts being joined along with a similar material to form a single solid piece. Brazing is much lower temp than welding because it only needs to melt the bronze rod, not the surrounding steel. I could be 180 degrees out of phase.
Brian
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Post by oldroadietehachapi on Oct 21, 2020 22:43:23 GMT
I suspect the writer was thinking of brazing; unless he was referring to some TIG process I am not familiar with. Their are some low heat TIG methods for very thin metal. If the bike were mine, I would simply braze the crack and see what happens. I am most interested in how it turns out.
Ride Happy Jim
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Post by brianbutler on Oct 21, 2020 22:56:07 GMT
I just received a Bernzomatic TS-8000 propane torch that I am hoping will be hot enough to do some brazing. I tried out the torch and it really blasts out a hot blue/white flame. My frame is just about stripped but I have a little sanding to do. I am waiting on a jar of brush-on flux that I think might be better in the crack than the flux coating on the bronze rods. I will inspect the bike for other cracks and try a repair. If it works, I might press my luck and try to put in some braze-on cable guides and water bottle bosses.
Also ordered a can of SprayMax Etching Primer for when I am finished with the body work.
Brian
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