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Post by triitout on Sept 14, 2020 0:50:12 GMT
I found this video to be an interesting take on why we still love our on steel (Viscount of course) road bikes in a world of carbon fiber and Strava.
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Post by oldroadietehachapi on Sept 14, 2020 5:05:00 GMT
A popular topic. In these videos, I have yet to hear about changing the gearing. The bike in question has a long cage Suntour Cyclone. It has considerable capacity. Compact cranksets have been around for 60 years. They could (as I like to do) end up with a 34/28 low gear. The spacing is not so nice but it solves the major compliant. Of course, they could install a triple, the spacing is better and the gearing more versatile. Unless you are a racer, I think steel makes a much better choice. As for aesthetics, there is no comparison. Perhaps the answer is having more than one bike? It wasn't for me as I just sold my Cannondale System Six; I rarely rode it. I hated the chatter on bumps, the bifters and overall fragile feel of the frame. Admittedly, it was a great performer, but had no soul.
Another video, same topic.
Of course I am prejudiced and probably live in the past. I like old cars better than new ones. I like old bikes better than new ones. I still turn the lights on at the switch as I don't have electrical servants like Alexa. I like old movies better than new ones. Wait, there may be hope. I like modern special effects better than the old stuff. I like modern television sets better than the old ones. Oh well, it is time to wind my clocks.
Cheers
Jim
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Post by franco on Sept 14, 2020 7:00:19 GMT
I feel the same about my modern(ish) Trek. The performance is there but the connection isn’t and any road surface that is less than perfect turns into an uncomfortable ride, despite the carbon forks and seat post. It seems to turn me into a more aggressive rider as well, I spend more time shifting through a load of gears with my head down than taking in any scenery. I’m not really a ‘racer’ though and have no interest in Strava and stuff like that, so the bike rarely gets used, it’s been out once this year. Steel bikes go with my mood, if I’m not ‘feeling it’ they perform well doing a leisurely ride, but if I want to ramp it up they perform just as well. The gearing can be limited but that’s just a case of swapping a few components as others have done on here.
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Post by brianbutler on Sept 14, 2020 13:48:42 GMT
This guy seems like the typical carbon arse that I like to dust on hills. If I see this type of rider ahead, I pull up to within observing distance to see if they get out of the saddle to ascend slight grades. If so, I know they don't have legs and they are fair game. I pull up alongside on a gentle grade to let them see my weaponry (1972 Raleigh Super Course 10-speed, for example) and say hello. Then I drop back as if winded, waiting for a real hill, at which point they get dusted, sometimes with a valiant but fruitless effort. Of course, I am frequently surprised and humbled when they mount a counter attack that I cannot answer. At that point, they often take pity on me and slow so we can converse. That's when I can play the age card, telling the 30 year old that I am 66. But one time the other guy was 74. Damn.
Brian
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Post by oldroadietehachapi on Sept 14, 2020 13:50:32 GMT
I feel the same about my modern(ish) Trek. The performance is there but the connection isn’t and any road surface that is less than perfect turns into an uncomfortable ride, despite the carbon forks and seat post. It seems to turn me into a more aggressive rider as well, I spend more time shifting through a load of gears with my head down than taking in any scenery. I’m not really a ‘racer’ though and have no interest in Strava and stuff like that, so the bike rarely gets used, it’s been out once this year. Steel bikes go with my mood, if I’m not ‘feeling it’ they perform well doing a leisurely ride, but if I want to ramp it up they perform just as well. The gearing can be limited but that’s just a case of swapping a few components as others have done on here. Well put!
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Post by brianbutler on Sept 14, 2020 16:38:29 GMT
Unbelievable. I was wound up after my last post and hoping I didn't sound like a total jerk, so I went out for a relatively long ride on the Viscount Sebring. As luck would have it, a carbon guy passed me going up the first of two 8% hills on the way home but I could see that he was struggling. Then I reflected on my earlier bragging and decided to see there was anything to it. I geared up and pulled alongside. We had a brief chat and a good laugh then I dusted him. It is surprising how efficiently adrenaline supresses pain.
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Post by franco on Sept 14, 2020 19:41:43 GMT
Haha, your posts made me smile Brian. Reminded me of a discussion about different types of riders, it was on GCN video if I remember right, one young Carbon guy in the comments mentioned ‘the old assassin’. He said an old guy riding something like a Holdsworth ground him down to a pulp then eventually disappeared over the horizon. That led to a load of comments saying don’t underestimate the old guys on their steel bikes.
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Post by wheelson on Sept 14, 2020 21:02:56 GMT
You guys are killing me! ;-} Great to know that like-minded old guys on steel bikes are out there. There's something about a steel bike that has a pure medicinal effect on me. I've been splitting my slow recovery (cervical disk surgery) time between my Cannondale and my Nashbar steel touring bike, with the blue Viscount for DFR8. Result? C'dale less and less, steel more and more. It's like I'm a different person on steel and I like the different guy! I've put a lot of miles on the C'dale but as I start to pare down the "herd", I think it may be next to go. Hey, there's two more Viscounts waiting in the wings! Best, John "wheelson"
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Post by brianbutler on Sept 15, 2020 2:11:32 GMT
This is a great thread. There really is something about the old steel, possibly that these 40-50 year old classics are the bikes we wish we had but could not afford in our youth but are now available for $50 on Craigslist or maybe even free curbside or at the town dump. Unimaginable wealth at our fingertips.
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Post by franco on Sept 15, 2020 6:28:30 GMT
Maybe it is a familiarity from our youth? I was on my bike daily during the summer months and used one every morning to do a paper round, different designs but all steel.
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Post by oldroadietehachapi on Sept 15, 2020 14:36:25 GMT
Maybe it is a familiarity from our youth? I was on my bike daily during the summer months and used one every morning to do a paper round, different designs but all steel. You have something there. A major part of my love of old bikes is that I wanted them when younger and could not afford them. Most of our bikes came with Huret Alvit and we lusted for Campagnolo. Also, people of my age group (rusty, dusty and musty) perceive things made of plastic as feeling cheap; hence "Steel is Real"! Nostalgia aside, some young people have practical reasons for preferring steel.
I recently sold one of my old bikes to a young man who said he and his buddies were "really into steel". They were retro, not nostalgic. They perceived it as quality, long lasting, not a throwaway and COOL.
Ride Safe Jim
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Post by franco on Sept 15, 2020 14:58:33 GMT
Enjoyed that video.
Yes, I sold a few steel bikes to young riders a few months ago and they were all excited to get out on them.
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Jem
Viscount
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Posts: 3,390
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Post by Jem on Sept 15, 2020 16:31:52 GMT
This guy seems like the typical carbon arse that I like to dust on hills. If I see this type of rider ahead, I pull up to within observing distance to see if they get out of the saddle to ascend slight grades. If so, I know they don't have legs and they are fair game. I pull up alongside on a gentle grade to let them see my weaponry (1972 Raleigh Super Course 10-speed, for example) and say hello. Then I drop back as if winded, waiting for a real hill, at which point they get dusted, sometimes with a valiant but fruitless effort. Of course, I am frequently surprised and humbled when they mount a counter attack that I cannot answer. At that point, they often take pity on me and slow so we can converse. That's when I can play the age card, telling the 30 year old that I am 66. But one time the other guy was 74. Damn. Brian I had fun about 3 weeks ago with a Lycra Power Ranger on a carbon bike, maybe early 30's. I was on my Viscount AX400. I came down a short slope into a very big round-about, and my way was clear - he was in front of me on my exit road, maybe 20 yards ahead, but due to the swoop of the bend I was gaining pretty fast, and proceeded to sit a safe distance from his wheel. He saw me and I think was surprised as he couldn't work out where I'd come from . We were on a long straight, and can you believe he stood up out of his seat to lose me? But I'd already got up to a good speed and was in exactly the right gear (maybe 8 or 9, maybe even up to tenth). You know that feeling when you hit something just right and everything is going well? I put some effort in, without embarrassing myself by standing up or showing much effort. I'd got on a loose t-shirt, and baggy shorts on and my Viscount cap. My nemesis was in full Team Sky black lycra and aerodynamic helmet. 30 seconds later, still on him, he looked around and was surprised I think to still see me. He then re-doubled his efforts and tried to pull away. This time he was more successful and was going to leave me behind, but he looked like he was hurting a bit (truth be told, that was my best sprint and I was almost burnt out too by this time) As chance would have it I was turning left as he was losing me. In my mind, he continued on at 100% for quite a while for fear of looking back and still seeing me and wore himself out. All of this probably was over in 60-80 seconds , so it wasn't exactly a gladiatorial contest of epic proportions , but it was fun.
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Post by triitout on Sept 15, 2020 19:54:04 GMT
I'm loving all the great responses! As soon as I get a chance to write, I need get my two cents in.
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Post by franco on Sept 15, 2020 20:45:42 GMT
Riding a bike should be fun and these guys like their old steel bikes...
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Post by oldroadietehachapi on Sept 15, 2020 20:59:13 GMT
You guys do better than me. In the past few days I had some good rides. I managed to pass a tricycle, an old lady on a cruiser with her dog in the basket and two kids on BMX bikes who were carrying fishing poles. A carbon guy passed me and disappeared up a hill. I was about even with another old guy riding a nice SOMA. I chased a golf cart until I caught his draft and hung in there until we came to the course saloon. I kept going gasping for breath. My heart rate had climbed to an excellent (for me) 110 BPM, despite the influence of my beta blockers. Cheers Jim
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Post by triitout on Sept 16, 2020 1:12:04 GMT
I fully go along with the sentiment that these bikes from our youth keep us connected to our youth. There is comfort in riding the same bikes from that period of your life on the same roads that you traveled as a 20 something year old. While so much has changed in your life and the world is currently convulsing, these rides are a constant and steadying experience that leaves you feeling more in control. My first Viscount was purchased towards the end of a stressful first year of professional school and I immediately felt an outlet for my angst. Those early explorations around Western, NY were magical and confidence building. It was more than a bike. It was my best friend to share adventures with. I collected all the brochures of the Viscount models and lusted over the "exotic" Aerospace Pro and others that were out of reach on a student budget. The bright, sky blue Gran Touring was already a huge step up from my old stolen Schwinn. It feels great to have now purchased and continue to ride all the higher level models thanks to scavenger hunting on Craigs list and ebay.
I must admit to being a Dr Jekyl and Mr Hyde case when it comes to the bikes I own. I went from a being a recreational rider to getting bit by the triathlon bug in the late '80's. My first was on my Viscount when everything was still steel. It was a thrill to be hanging the first few miles with guys on Italian bikes that were Campy equipped on my humble 12 year old VGT. Whether it was my fitness or bike, I bought in to the idea of needing a real racing bike. I went on to own to a Vitus 979 and by 1993, the Viscount was sadly hanging in the garage neglected and rusting. Ten years later came a Kestrel carbon fiber, aero bar equipped racing machine. Fast and beautiful, good race results but I started to no longer enjoy cycling. No connection, no joy and no comfort. Another 10 years and I need a nicer, faster racing bike. Trek Madone was Lance's and Contador's bike so I had to have it. No aero bars and it felt like a road bike was right. It brought me back to cycling the way I remembered it. About the same time, I fell into the CTC thread stared by Busaste and "rediscovered" my Viscount. Rebuilt it and reconnected.
So I'm both guys. The one who loves to surprise a young carbon bike guy that I can hang with him while on a Viscount as well as being that lycra clad Ironman jersey carbon Trek riding racer who appreciates when my young alter ego passes me on an old hand me down steel bike. It cuts both ways. Something about rooting for the underdog that is ingrained in loving a brand that had the balls to sell a competitive bike at half the price of an Italian/Campy machine. It's like rooting for the Mets vs the Yankees.
With no racing this year with Covid, I've found more enjoyment riding my old Viscounts than ever. I plan to keep racing as long as I can so modern bikes will continue to help me be competitive and I'll still be in lycra. I'm 66, and I know that if and when triathlons are over for me, I'll still enjoy just riding my Viscounts.
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Post by wheelson on Sept 17, 2020 3:57:18 GMT
I guess in some ways I'm both guys still. Even though I've never raced but have done more epic and gravel rides, I can't get away from drop bars and lightweight bikes. I love good technology, that's what drew me to Viscounts. The engineer in me loved the lightweight "aerospace" steel, the sealed bearings, all the things that make Lambert/Viscount so different. I still like new stuff, but I'm usually several years behind times. I like things that make my life easier, some of the "brifter" brake and shifter combos, cross bar brake levers, bar end shifters for touring bikes. I still use toe clips and straps mostly, or pedals that accommodate clip in on one side, toe clips on the other. I like bikes that can be multipurpose, such as my Austro Daimler that I can convert from 700Cx25's to 650Bx38's depending on road or trail surface. Generally though, I seem to always come back to steel. I'm lucky that I started in the bike business in 1966, back into it in 1974, and now after 30 years in engineering, I have a bike shop job in my retirement that lets me try out new, used, and customer's bikes of all sorts as well as all the new components and gadgets. But, at the end of the day, it seems I always come back to steel. And lately, I seem to be obsessed with Viscounts! My A-D Vent Noir, Schwinn Paramount and Voyageur, Motobecane Cyclotouriste, Cannondale are all quietly being ignored in various stages of modifications and maintenance. Seems I have a problem called Viscount. Best, John "wheelson"
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Post by oldroadietehachapi on Sept 17, 2020 5:39:07 GMT
I do own one carbon bike that I like to ride; it's an oldie, a carbon tube bike from 1990. It is a Specialized Allez Epic. It basically was designed to ride like steel, but be stiffer and lighter. It was made with carbon tubes bonded to (wonderfully made) aluminum lugs that attached both internally and externally. Vitus built a similar bike that was lighter but not as robust. It lacks the hollow sound and chatter found in modern molded monocoque carbon bikes. I outfitted it with a triple and an Ultegra 8 speed setup. The bare frame is one pond one ounce lighter than my bare Viscount frame. Not a significant savings for an old fat man like me. Nevertheless, I use it for group rides where I need all the help that I can get.
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Post by wheelson on Sept 17, 2020 13:24:11 GMT
Jim, I really like this particular one and have though long and hard about getting one as my lone carbon bike. I have a steel framed Allez already (the Mark DiNucci designed, Taiwanese made - the black one with yellow decals). It's light and fast though somewhat limited for my riding needs since it will run a 700Cx29 tire absolute max with almost zero clearance on the front. I love the ride, though, and it's the one I have brifters and cross bar brake levers on.
I need another bike like I need another herniated disk but the pilot light for the Allez Epic flame is still lit! Best, John "wheelson"
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Post by oldroadietehachapi on Sept 17, 2020 16:06:49 GMT
John, if you get one you will like it! I think it one (if not the only) early carbon frame with the durability to still be safely ridden when 30plus years old. In fact mine rides like new.
Bryant Bainbridge of Specialized bikes made the following comments. "I remember when we hired a bike developer from Trek, he mentioned that they had put one of those Epic's on a testing machine expecting it to fail in short order and were shocked by the fact that they couldn't break it. Despite looking crude by today's measure, those were really nice riding bikes."
"BTW-the comment that 'I think they all had occasional separation issues' is not correct. In fact the only separation issues were limited to the first shipment of bikes. That thing was over engineered to beat the band. In fact, it could have been significantly lighter, but at the time we wanted to be multiples over the safety factor since there was simply not a lot of experience in the market yet. Regards, Bryant Bainbridge"
Perhaps the ad will feed the flame.
Cheers Jim
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Post by franco on Sept 17, 2020 22:06:00 GMT
That does look nice, but what about...
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Post by oldroadietehachapi on Sept 18, 2020 4:02:38 GMT
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Post by franco on Sept 18, 2020 19:49:46 GMT
This guy does some cool vintage steel restorations, his website (in the description) has some vintage clothing for sale and you can also download various vintage catalogues for free.
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Post by blackwizard on Oct 5, 2020 6:25:41 GMT
I ride modern and vintage depending on the ride. Due to COVID-19 most of my vintage and I are separated and I’m living in London. Most rides can be done using a narrow range of gears and I have a Modern Raleigh Militis that is easy and fun to ride even in traffic. If I’m just wanting a nice leisurely ride I have a 1977 MKM Dominator built up as a 7 speed with a bar end shifter, nice for a tootle around Richmond Park or the city at weekend and is surprisingly fast. However I went upto Lancashire last month and took a Cannondale that has a 32T cassette and welcomed that on 19% gradient climbs. I’m not bothered what I ride as long as I can actually ride and feel the choice of bike is important when matched to the planned ride.
Naturally if anyone would care to take a vintage 5 speed over Pendle Hill and go past me on a well geared modern I’m happy to buy the drinks at the pub later 😀
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Jem
Viscount
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Posts: 3,390
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Post by Jem on Oct 5, 2020 16:31:53 GMT
Naturally if anyone would care to take a vintage 5 speed over Pendle Hill and go past me on a well geared modern I’m happy to buy the drinks at the pub later 😀 I think he'll be along later...his name is Sprocket Thighs of steel. On an early Eroica , he rode up the big Derbyshire hills, then waited a bit for me- when I didn't show he rode back down the hill to ride up again with me.
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Post by blackwizard on Oct 5, 2020 17:25:35 GMT
I’m always up for a challenge..........the Hill is from memory 4.5km and has some gradients up to 19%.........I absolutely love it but then I don’t do that with 50 to 28T on a vintage steel bike and doubt I could. Derbyshire hills can’t be brutal as well, had some great rides down there as well 😀
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vfrman
Viscount
hi-13 lamberts[2 gold, 1 reg harris] 3 10 speeds
Posts: 33
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Post by vfrman on Oct 15, 2020 1:31:52 GMT
darn; now you guys [and girls] are making me miss my 1970-ish scwhinn red fastback with rams-horn handlebars, sissy bar and 5 speed shift stick...[and banana seat, covered in plastic]..now they go for around a thousand dollars, if you can find one...good fun
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Post by wheelson on Oct 15, 2020 1:47:59 GMT
Now you're making ME miss the Schwinn Fastbacks and Stingrays. I remember them well in my first job out of high school, a Schwinn dealership, 1966 - 1970 and mid-1973 - 1979. I put so many of those things, as well as the Krate series, together that I could probably still do it in my sleep. Like all Schwinn's they were very well made - even over-built, quite unlike the Schwinn's of today. Of course, it's a different company entirely. Best, John "wheelson"
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Post by oldroadietehachapi on Oct 19, 2020 21:38:34 GMT
I now love my old bikes more than ever. I have ignored new bikes for some time and recently checked out the carbon wonder road bikes found at our local bike shops. The road bikes on their floor had a price range between $2500 and $14000! You can buy some fabulous vintage road bikes for the price of their entry level road bikes. To buy something cheaper you were limited to hybrid bikes which seemed to start at a more reasonable $450. Wait a minute, you can buy a very nice vintage road bike for $450. I now know why folks are getting $1200 or so for a nice PX10.
Cheers Jim
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