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Post by oldroadietehachapi on Nov 20, 2020 22:46:12 GMT
Are you still allowed daily exercise Jim? Even under the toughest restrictions we could get out to cycle/walk for a hour a day. I’m in a weird place at the moment, allowed to work in peoples homes but otherwise all the lockdown rules apply. So basically I can go and spend eight hours in a strangers house but not allowed to see my parents or anyone else. Yep, can ride take walks and so forth so long as feet apart or wearing a mask. You are supposed to carry a mask with you at all times so you can put it on if someone comes near. Only travel to store, medical and so forth.
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Post by franco on Dec 3, 2020 14:37:08 GMT
Out of interest, is anyone else a bit apprehensive/nervous about taking a vaccine at this point?
I know in some corners of the internet you are viewed as tin foil hat wearing conspiracist if you express any concerns but to me it seems a reasonable reaction to a vaccine that has been developed really quickly.
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Post by brianbutler on Dec 3, 2020 15:37:22 GMT
I am not apprehensive about it. I think there are two areas of concern and I have made decisions about both. First, there is concern that the speed of development compromises the safety or efficacy of the vaccine. I believe the speed is explained by several factors that make COVID-19 vaccine development quite different that previous vaccine developments. I could try to repeat what I think know, but a quick search found this slightly out of date article that pretty much covers it:
The second concern is long term side effects, which obviously are not known. To some extent this exists with any vaccine. I don't know what has been done to answer the question. My attitude is that I am in my late sixties so most of my future is behind me and long term no longer seems that long and I would like to get back to doing whatever I want while I can.
Brian
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Post by franco on Dec 3, 2020 16:27:42 GMT
Completely understand that opinion Brian, I’ll check that link later as well.
My concerns are also the long term side effects, which I don’t think anyone knows and reading about a percentage of the Swine Flu vaccine long term side effects is a bit worrying. Although I’m not suggesting there is any direct link or claim to know anything about virology.
I’ve accepted we will all have to have it if we want to continue any sort of ‘normal life’, I imagine those that don’t will be restricted on all travel, where they can work and where they can go. It will almost become a legal requirement unless you are a recluse.
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Post by wheelson on Dec 3, 2020 19:47:25 GMT
Like Brian, I'm resigned to the fact that I'm not getting any younger and I have more than a few things left to do in what time I have remaining. At 72 years old, I don't have much choice as the rewards greatly outweigh the risks. With my health issues, I've missed the last two years for any serious riding. When I was offered a minimally invasive procedure that "might" offer a two-year reprieve from intense lower back pain, I jumped at the chance. The alternative, full-blown back surgery, meant another year of downtime. First half, last week = near instantaneous relief. Second half today, fingers crossed. Point is, the future is now, or at least short term, anyhow. Best, John "wheelson"
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Post by franco on Dec 3, 2020 20:00:20 GMT
Hope it goes well John
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Post by dracco on Dec 3, 2020 20:23:12 GMT
The concepts on which the current vaccines are based (mRNA encapsulated in liponanoparticles: Pfizer and Moderna) and the replication-defective adenovirus vectored spike protein sequence (Oxford/AstraZenca) are well established, and with the mRNA-based vaccines there's not a lot that can go wrong. It's not like using an insufficiently attenuated live virus.
On the other hand, in the past it has taken 12-15 years to get from the initial concept to a vaccine approved for general use, most of which time has been taken up with safety assessments between the PhaseI/II/III clinical trials,and then prior to final rollout it's typically taken a couple of years to get final approval. That's because the medical authorities are naturally risk-averse. In the case of the current vaccines it's taken less than 12 months, so there will be some unanswered questions, and I don't doubt that somewhere down the line there will be some individuals who develop adverse reactions to the vaccine.
So it's really a question of cost/benefit analysis. Are we prepared to risk a(probably small)number of potentially serious consequences if for the rest of the population it frees us from the very real dangers that the virus presents? Can we view such adverse reactions as acceptable collateral damage? (And if we do, then governments had better be prepared to support the victims and their families financially and in terms of healthcare a lot more than has sometimes been the case - e.g. victims of contaminated blood in the 1980s who developed hepatitis or HIV).
My particular concern is that there will be enormous political pressure to get people vaccinated, as soon as possible, and that even a single adverse reaction could be blown up by the press and be a propaganda godsend to the anti-vaxxers. Unless carefully managed that could lead to a significant proportion of the population rejecting the vaccine with the result that we don't develop herd immunity through most of the population having been vaccinated.
As someone who understands the science behind this, I'll be first in the queue when my cohort comes up for vaccination.
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Post by brianbutler on Dec 3, 2020 20:42:53 GMT
Completely understand that opinion Brian, I’ll check that link later as well. My concerns are also the long term side effects, which I don’t think anyone knows and reading about a percentage of the Swine Flu vaccine long term side effects is a bit worrying. Although I’m not suggesting there is any direct link or claim to know anything about virology. I’ve accepted we will all have to have it if we want to continue any sort of ‘normal life’, I imagine those that don’t will be restricted on all travel, where they can work and where they can go. It will almost become a legal requirement unless you are a recluse. It is all a calculated risk. In 2009, I had swine flu and then some other version about 6 weeks later. I was really sick with both. Since then, I always get every vaccine that is recommended. I always have a strong reaction and I'm laid up for a day but I still think it is worth it. Last summer I got bitten by a woodchuck. Some of them around here had rabies, so I had to get the whole rabies antibody/vaccine series. You're lucky you don't have rabies circulating in the UK. I figure the two part COVID-19 vaccine will knock me out twice and then I'll have it over with.
Regulating people's behavior based on vaccination status would be a matter of state law in the US and would be highly controversial in many states.
Brian
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Post by franco on Dec 3, 2020 21:57:07 GMT
The concepts on which the current vaccines are based (mRNA encapsulated in liponanoparticles: Pfizer and Moderna) and the replication-defective adenovirus vectored spike protein sequence (Oxford/AstraZenca) are well established, and with the mRNA-based vaccines there's not a lot that can go wrong. It's not like using an insufficiently attenuated live virus. On the other hand, in the past it has taken 12-15 years to get from the initial concept to a vaccine approved for general use, most of which time has been taken up with safety assessments between the PhaseI/II/III clinical trials,and then prior to final rollout it's typically taken a couple of years to get final approval. That's because the medical authorities are naturally risk-averse. In the case of the current vaccines it's taken less than 12 months, so there will be some unanswered questions, and I don't doubt that somewhere down the line there will be some individuals who develop adverse reactions to the vaccine. So it's really a question of cost/benefit analysis. Are we prepared to risk a(probably small)number of potentially serious consequences if for the rest of the population it frees us from the very real dangers that the virus presents? Can we view such adverse reactions as acceptable collateral damage? (And if we do, then governments had better be prepared to support the victims and their families financially and in terms of healthcare a lot more than has sometimes been the case - e.g. victims of contaminated blood in the 1980s who developed hepatitis or HIV). My particular concern is that there will be enormous political pressure to get people vaccinated, as soon as possible, and that even a single adverse reaction could be blown up by the press and be a propaganda godsend to the anti-vaxxers. Unless carefully managed that could lead to a significant proportion of the population rejecting the vaccine with the result that we don't develop herd immunity through most of the population having been vaccinated. As someone who understands the science behind this, I'll be first in the queue when my cohort comes up for vaccination. I was wondering when the phrase ‘collateral damage’ would arise, but it seems the only way forward. And yes, aftercare is a huge concern. Thanks for the insight, interesting.
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Jem
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Post by Jem on Dec 3, 2020 22:19:05 GMT
So it's really a question of cost/benefit analysis. Are we prepared to risk a(probably small)number of potentially serious consequences if for the rest of the population it frees us from the very real dangers that the virus presents? Can we view such adverse reactions as acceptable collateral damage? (And if we do, then governments had better be prepared to support the victims and their families financially and in terms of healthcare a lot more than has sometimes been the case - e.g. victims of contaminated blood in the 1980s who developed hepatitis or HIV).My particular concern is that there will be enormous political pressure to get people vaccinated, as soon as possible, and that even a single adverse reaction could be blown up by the press and be a propaganda godsend to the anti-vaxxers. Unless carefully managed that could lead to a significant proportion of the population rejecting the vaccine with the result that we don't develop herd immunity through most of the population having been vaccinated. As someone who understands the science behind this, I'll be first in the queue when my cohort comes up for vaccination. All good points Dracco. Thanks for that post.
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ks1u
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Post by ks1u on Dec 3, 2020 23:04:12 GMT
Although the lingering impact of reading: Flowers For Algernon as a young teen, is certainly in the back of my mind, realistically a lot of people will be getting vaccinated ahead of me. The people in the trials will have had many additional months of exposure and I know I definitely don't want to get the virus, so I'll probably spin the wheel and take a chance. Every time I go out on the bike there is a small chance I'll get hit (again) but I still do it.
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Post by wheelson on Dec 4, 2020 3:13:14 GMT
Although the lingering impact of reading: Flowers For Algernon as a young teen, is certainly in the back of my mind, realistically a lot of people will be getting vaccinated ahead of me. The people in the trials will have had many additional months of exposure and I know I definitely don't want to get the virus, so I'll probably spin the wheel and take a chance. Every time I go out on the bike there is a small chance I'll get hit (again) but I still do it. Good point, the “going out on a bike” comparison. It’s a gamble for sure. Who would have thought? Even though I’m 72, there will be quite a few ahead of me too: health care people (wife and daughter) , nursing home residents (93 year old mother-in-law), still personally affected. Still, like flu and pneumonia vaccinations, I’ll have to take the chance, life is one huge gamble for sure. Best, John “wheelson”
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Post by dracco on Dec 4, 2020 15:39:43 GMT
From a Covid point of view, being out onthe bike is probably a pretty safe place to be. You're safer out of doors, where any virus partiles will be rapidly diluted, and you're very effectively socially distanced. Certainly, I'd rate the chance of being hit by a car as higher than being hit by a virus (although at least I can see and hear cars coming, and cycle in an appropriately defensive manner.)
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Post by oldroadietehachapi on Dec 4, 2020 17:26:44 GMT
I live in a strange new world. Los Angeles county has outlawed cycling and jogging; they have a stay at home order for all but essential travel. The State of California is about to do the same; which would include my area. Since protests are exempt, I might have to come up with some sort of cycling related protest sign for my bicycle, any idea for my sign? Many police departments have said they will not enforce these mandates.
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Post by triitout on Dec 4, 2020 22:00:57 GMT
I'm all in on taking the vaccine. I was supposed to take the pneumonia vaccine when I turned 65 but I figured I'd just wait for my annual physical 6 months later. My bad as I got laid up with pneumonia (which lingered for 4 months) before I got the vaccine. The one year I skipped the flu vaccine I got nailed. Just took the second dose of the Shingrix vaccine today (for shingles). As has been already said, I'm more worried about the risk of covid now than the risk of any long term vaccine side effects later.
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Post by brianbutler on Dec 4, 2020 22:49:20 GMT
I'm all in on taking the vaccine. I was supposed to take the pneumonia vaccine when I turned 65 but I figured I'd just wait for my annual physical 6 months later. My bad as I got laid up with pneumonia (which lingered for 4 months) before I got the vaccine. The one year I skipped the flu vaccine I got nailed. Just took the second dose of the Shingrix vaccine today (for shingles). As has been already said, I'm more worried about the risk of covid now than the risk of any long term vaccine side effects later. The Shingrix vaccine really whacked me both times. The pneumonia vaccines (both) were not as bad, just a very sore arm. Flu shots always hit me pretty hard. Rabies - no noticible reaction. I would like to know whether a robust response correlates with strong immunity or no relationship.
Brian
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Post by triitout on Dec 5, 2020 3:39:54 GMT
I'm all in on taking the vaccine. I was supposed to take the pneumonia vaccine when I turned 65 but I figured I'd just wait for my annual physical 6 months later. My bad as I got laid up with pneumonia (which lingered for 4 months) before I got the vaccine. The one year I skipped the flu vaccine I got nailed. Just took the second dose of the Shingrix vaccine today (for shingles). As has been already said, I'm more worried about the risk of covid now than the risk of any long term vaccine side effects later. The Shingrix vaccine really whacked me both times. The pneumonia vaccines (both) were not as bad, just a very sore arm. Flu shots always hit me pretty hard. Rabies - no noticible reaction. I would like to know whether a robust response correlates with strong immunity or no relationship.
Brian
According to my Magic 8 Ball (remember those???), the answer is yes to robust response/strong immunity as per US News and World Report. "You are not at risk for developing the shingles-virus infection by getting the [Shingrix] vaccine," Swartz points out. The vaccine is not a live vaccine, she explains. Instead, it's made up of proteins. Feeling ill after an injection is due to your immune system generating a response to recognize those proteins, she says. "It then causes a durable response so that when your body sees those proteins again, it will be able to fight the infection and prevent it from causing disease."
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Post by oldroadietehachapi on Dec 5, 2020 4:28:25 GMT
If you have an extra 25 minutes this video may be interesting. It is based on the common flu, not Covid19. Nevertheless, the mode of transmission, the bodies immune response and other defenses are the same. I used to show this video to my students when I was teaching biology for a community college. Since the story is told with a vocalist as the central character, it may be more interesting to the musical types. Speaking of musical types, is there something actually called "funky blue" as mentioned in the video?
All the Best Jim
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Post by triitout on Dec 18, 2020 4:42:06 GMT
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Post by franco on Dec 19, 2020 18:38:42 GMT
Quite a cool little video that I think will be enjoyed
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Post by wheelson on Dec 19, 2020 21:07:30 GMT
Thanks, Franco, a bit thought provoking and good for the soul. That's an interesting bike he's riding, reminds me of a 1920's era bicycle "motorcycle" frame. As far as his brewing method, effective but a bit shaky. With my pepsi can alcohol stove, I use a beer can chicken holder. www.farmandfleet.com/products/1283583-mr-bar-b-q-beer-can-chicken-roaster.htmlThe pepsi (or beer can) stove fits inside and the bottom of the roaster makes a good stable base. These can usually be found at a thrift store for a dollar (pound?) or so. Great for tea or coffee outside or a full meal. Best, John "wheelson"
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Post by franco on Dec 19, 2020 22:20:35 GMT
That looks a good idea John and I keep meaning to try the coke can method stove, I’m all for things done diy and on a budget! I bought a small flask last week and an ex Polish Army bread bag that is like a Carradice bag at the fraction of the cost. Looking forward to getting out for a relaxed ride over Christmas and having a brew
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Post by wheelson on Dec 20, 2020 0:36:22 GMT
That looks a good idea John and I keep meaning to try the coke can method stove, I’m all for things done diy and on a budget! I bought a small flask last week and an ex Polish Army bread bag that is like a Carradice bag at the fraction of the cost. Looking forward to getting out for a relaxed ride over Christmas and having a brew Thanks, Franco. I used one of the can stoves on a weeklong bike camping trip a few years back, using it for everything from brewing coffee to cooking meals. I hadn’t figured out the beer can roaster base then. The coke can stove works well with denatured alcohol. Cheap to buy, even cheaper to make: Two on a camping trip, one for brewing, one for the meal. I really hope to get back in that mode as soon as possible, especially after watching the video you posted! Best, John “wheelson”
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Post by wheelson on Dec 20, 2020 0:53:38 GMT
Of course, this stove is just one of many designs and not the one I used on the trip (purchased on eBay for less than $10 delivered). I ran across this video a few years ago and was impressed by the simplicity - most of the purchased units are more complex and are riveted or epoxied together, but also harder to drain excess fuel out. The nice thing about the video design is that if your stove were to become damaged while on the road, it would be so easy to make another one in a snap. Best, John "wheelson"
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Post by wheelson on Dec 20, 2020 1:59:15 GMT
Of course, this stove is just one of many designs and not the one I used on the trip (purchased on eBay for less than $10 delivered). I ran across this video a few years ago and was impressed by the simplicity - most of the purchased units are more complex and are riveted or epoxied together, but also harder to drain excess fuel out. The nice thing about the video design is that if your stove were to become damaged while on the road, it would be so easy to make another one in a snap. Best, John "wheelson" And if ADMIN feels these posts are more appropriate in the CAMPING section, please by all means move them over. I guess the near future COVID mode for outings is likely to be only one or two riders though. Best, John “wheelson”
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Post by brianbutler on Dec 20, 2020 2:19:03 GMT
One thing I like about road bike touring is access to civilization. The only thing I have "cooked" on the road is water for breakfast tea and oatmeal. Lunch is usually at an eating establishment of some kind, and supper is cold food from the last store of the day. That strategy minimizes, weight, volume, and cost.
Brian
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Post by wheelson on Dec 20, 2020 5:11:16 GMT
One thing I like about road bike touring is access to civilization. The only thing I have "cooked" on the road is water for breakfast tea and oatmeal. Lunch is usually at an eating establishment of some kind, and supper is cold food from the last store of the day. That strategy minimizes, weight, volume, and cost.
Brian
That’s a nice setup, Brian. My trip was with a Boy Scout Troop and on rail trail and towpath. Plus it was about ten years ago and a lot of the infrastructure along the trails wasn’t fully developed. And of course, I wasn’t about to let those kids out-rough the old guy! I pretty much carried everything with me and it was like I was a kid again back in the mountains of North Carolina. Yeah, I’d do it again if my 72 yr. old body would just cooperate. Best, John “wheelson”
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Post by wheelson on Dec 20, 2020 5:12:28 GMT
One thing I like about road bike touring is access to civilization. The only thing I have "cooked" on the road is water for breakfast tea and oatmeal. Lunch is usually at an eating establishment of some kind, and supper is cold food from the last store of the day. That strategy minimizes, weight, volume, and cost.
Brian
That’s a nice setup, Brian. My trip was with a Boy Scout Troop and on rail trail and towpath. Plus it was about ten years ago and a lot of the infrastructure along the trails wasn’t fully developed. And of course, I wasn’t about to let those kids out-rough the old guy! I pretty much carried everything with me and it was like I was a kid again back in the mountains of North Carolina. Yeah, I’d do it again if my 72 yr. old body would just cooperate. Best, John “wheelson”
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Post by wheelson on Dec 20, 2020 6:06:29 GMT
Here's a 10 year old photo of me and my Cannondale at the end of the weeklong GAP/C&O trip with the Scout Troop: www.flickr.com/photos/wheelson2011/38589845051/in/dateposted-public/Everything for the week was packed in those Nashbar "saddlebag" panniers, bivy tent on top, and the mini-panniers on the front. Four water bottles, two on the handlebars, two on the frame. I tried to make everything so I could be self-sufficient as possible. I did replenish my water supply as needed and ate pizza one day while my clothes dried out in the laundromat. The only thing I seriously miscalculated on was an extra pair of shoes and a bit more than a sleeping bag liner for the early May coolness. The aero bars were to rest the shoulders and back, health issues even then. I guess my point in posting this on the COVID thread is the probability that if doing similar excursions in the future, self-sufficiency with as little dependence on restaurants and external facilities as possible may well be the rule of the day. I think it's doable without a huge amount of bother or expense. Again, I'm looking back at Franco's posted video. Best, John "wheelson"
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Post by franco on Dec 20, 2020 11:16:21 GMT
That looks a good idea John and I keep meaning to try the coke can method stove, I’m all for things done diy and on a budget! I bought a small flask last week and an ex Polish Army bread bag that is like a Carradice bag at the fraction of the cost. Looking forward to getting out for a relaxed ride over Christmas and having a brew Thanks, Franco. I used one of the can stoves on a weeklong bike camping trip a few years back, using it for everything from brewing coffee to cooking meals. I hadn’t figured out the beer can roaster base then. The coke can stove works well with denatured alcohol. Cheap to buy, even cheaper to make: Two on a camping trip, one for brewing, one for the meal. I really hope to get back in that mode as soon as possible, especially after watching the video you posted! Best, John “wheelson” Thanks John, I’d forgotten about this video. I’ll have a go at this today, had four cans of beer last night so plenty of materials!
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