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Post by triitout on Feb 12, 2018 3:30:25 GMT
Anyone here land the US EBay Lambert? Went off tonight for $481. Amazing.
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Post by cusqueno on Feb 12, 2018 11:33:09 GMT
Seems a very reasonable price for such a rare and attractive frame ;-)
Pity most of the components are non-original, but the forks look to be first gen (as they should be if they are contemporaneous with the frame) - no hole at the top of the underside.
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Jem
Viscount
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Posts: 3,389 
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Post by Jem on Feb 12, 2018 20:11:50 GMT
I had just one moment of madness early on there when no one was bidding on it, and asked the seller if they wanted $100 for it. I wasn't sure how I was going to get it out of USA as she didn't want to ship abroad - but I am sure I would have come up with something if she'd said yes.
After about an hour of sending that email, I started to hope that she didn't accept my offer as I started to envision a life-long search for the golden RD and other original components. That would have been sheer hell.
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Post by triitout on Feb 12, 2018 20:33:23 GMT
I was in touch too, but more about the condition of the plating. Several areas were flaking off with rust on the metal. Not like you can use touch up paint. That made my decision easier not to make an offer. A bit rough and I was surprised it went that high in that condition.
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Jem
Viscount
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Posts: 3,389
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Post by Jem on Feb 12, 2018 21:49:42 GMT
I was in touch too, but more about the condition of the plating. Several areas were flaking off with rust on the metal. Not like you can use touch up paint. That made my decision easier not to make an offer. A bit rough and I was surprised it went that high in that condition. It wasn't in great shape, but the next time one in any condition comes up for sale could be many years from now. |
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Post by eaglerock on Mar 6, 2018 2:12:52 GMT
I was in touch too, but more about the condition of the plating. Several areas were flaking off with rust on the metal. Not like you can use touch up paint. That made my decision easier not to make an offer. A bit rough and I was surprised it went that high in that condition. I've got some tiny bits of flaking on my Professional Gran Prix 24K (a lot less that I anticipated - more on that later). Out of fear that I might end up with large bare patches, I looked into the idea of gold-leafing the bare spots, and then clear-coating over to hold the leaf down. I think that's a viable option; the base for the gold plating has to be chrome, so you'll have a smooth surface for the leaf. It appears that the original plating is clear-coated anyway, perhaps to protect the decals. On my frame, the uncleaned sections have an amber shade, like European-style gold jewelry. Cleaned, polished sections are more yellow, like American-style gold jewelry. My thinking is that there's a thin coat of varnish that's darkened over the years. Did anyone capture any of the photos of the new old stock Lambert while the auction was on? It would be useful to post some photos so I could do a color comparison. The clear coating makes little functional sense. One of the key features of gold is that it doesn't oxidize/tarnish; in theory, all you should have to do with a 24K plated frame is wash/wipe it down. |
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Post by wheelson on Mar 6, 2018 13:09:36 GMT
Eaglerock " I was in touch too, but more about the condition of the plating. Several areas were flaking off with rust on the metal. Not like you can use touch up paint. That made my decision easier not to make an offer. A bit rough and I was surprised it went that high in that condition.[/quote]I've got some tiny bits of flaking on my Professional Gran Prix 24K[/a] (a lot less that I anticipated - more on that later). Out of fear that I might end up with large bare patches, I looked into the idea of gold-leafing the bare spots, and then clear-coating over to hold the leaf down."
There is a US company Caswell that makes small electroplating kits. I have used the Copy Chrome with good results, they do make a gold plating kit.
Best,
John "wheelson"
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Post by eaglerock on Mar 16, 2018 7:23:11 GMT
Eaglerock " I was in touch too, but more about the condition of the plating. Several areas were flaking off with rust on the metal. Not like you can use touch up paint. That made my decision easier not to make an offer. A bit rough and I was surprised it went that high in that condition. I've got some tiny bits of flaking on my Professional Gran Prix 24K (a lot less that I anticipated - more on that later). Out of fear that I might end up with large bare patches, I looked into the idea of gold-leafing the bare spots, and then clear-coating over to hold the leaf down."I'm familiar with Caswell's product line, from a time several years back when I was fantasizing about copper anodizing a set of Mafac Racers to go on my dark green Raleigh International. The products seem useful, but there are a few drawbacks to using them for a spot project: 1) They're expensive, and both anodizing and electroplating require a lot of equipment that's not in the basic kit. Electroplating requires immersion in a solution with the plating mineral in it, then using the metal item to be plated as one of the terminals in an electrical circuit. Even the gold brush plating kits start at US$430 (14 carat); the full immersion kits that Caswell recommends for larger exposed areas are US$1320 for the 24 carat version, without all the extra gear. 2) In cases where you're down to rust, gold plating is no longer a one-step process. Gold won't electroplate directly to steel; the underlying surface has to be copper, nickel or chrome. My assumption is that the frame is fully chromed underneath the gold plate, either with a full three-layer chrome (copper then nickel then chrome) or a stripped-down two layer chrome (copper then chrome, without the nickel layer). At a minimum, you have to plate with nickel; so that's an additional US$280. This is a lot of money for a very small area. It's hard to make a cost/benefit argument for it. On the other hand, gold leaf is widely available from art supply stores. It's attached with an adhesive, as it's usually applied to fabric, paint or wood; it's then covered with a clear sealer. Blick, a big US art supply chain, has a "composite" (an amalgam of gold powder, maybe?) gold leaf kit with 25 5.5"x5.5" sheets of gold, adhesive and clearcoat for under US$15. 23.75 carat gold leaf is available in booklets of 25 8.6cmx8.6cm sheets for US$80. If you're just experimenting, it's a much smaller investment. My feeling is that anodizing and electroplating are jobs for professionals, unless you're going to do a lot of it. I have a silversmith in my town, and a silver plater in the city immediately to the south; I should stop by once the bike's rolling and ask what my spot replating options are. |
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Post by eaglerock on Mar 21, 2018 8:55:02 GMT
For what it's worth, the winner of the 24K lugged Lambert has sent me a few private messages over the last few days. He has been a member of this forum for nearly four years, owns seven Lamberts/Viscounts, but has never sent a public post. What say we encourage him to tell us how he's going to manage this new project?
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Jem
Viscount
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Posts: 3,389
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Post by Jem on Mar 21, 2018 16:13:08 GMT
For what it's worth, the winner of the 24K lugged Lambert has sent me a few private messages over the last few days. He has been a member of this forum for nearly four years, owns seven Lamberts/Viscounts, but has never sent a public post. What say we encourage him to tell us how he's going to manage this new project? Wow! We'd love to hear/see anything he has to say or show us. |
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Post by eaglerock on Mar 27, 2018 0:22:05 GMT
To continue on the "gold Lamberts out there in the world somewhere" theme, there's something currently listed on eBay US: www.ebay.com/itm/LAMBERT-OF-ENGLAND-10-SPD-ROAD-BIKE-FACTORY-CHROME-PLATED-59-CM-70s-VERY-NICE/253507937617?hash=item3b06402551i.ebayimg.com/images/g/z8YAAOSwwo1XfaYe/s-l1600.jpgThe poster says "there's a yellowish camera tint", but I think that's mistaken. To my eye, when I see patches of yellowish metal interspersed with patches of silverish metal in a field with diffuse and fairly even lighting, I think this is a frame that was aggressively cleaned to the point where large patches of gold electroplate were worn through to the...I'm guessing nickel underneath. My eye was tuned to that appearance, because it's exactly the outcome I've been trying to avoid in rehabilitating my own gold filleted PGP. I haven't contacted the seller yet, to hear the back story and possibly deliver the bad news. What does this look like to everyone else? |
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Jem
Viscount
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Posts: 3,389
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Post by Jem on Mar 27, 2018 6:58:31 GMT
I was pretty sure this was going to be the chromed 'Superbike' (as I say in another thread a few mins ago)- and I say that as someone who owns one, but not having the bike within easy checking distance at the moment , I had to refer to a couple of photo's of mine - there is at least one thing that doesn't quite tally. And maybe more. It should have 2 brazed-on bottle cage lugs - and while the ebay one has a bottle on there , it seems a little higher than it should be and he has it held on by 2 ties, which wouldn't be necessary. Also he states it's 23.5 " but it looks bigger? It would be interesting to get more info from the seller about it's history Here's mine for comparison - and a member here, Utjeej has a close to original one in his postings recently  Viscount Aerospace Supabike by Sooper 8, on Flickr |
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Post by raymondo on Mar 28, 2018 19:56:14 GMT
What is the rarest Viscount/Lambert bike.? I have seen more gold plated bikes on the internet but only one in real life , Johns. Never seen a Superbike in the real but Sooper has one. Is there another rarerer model , it may be a run of the mill model that gradually has gone to the bike shed in the sky. Corsiar Wayfarer are rare now , is there rarer?
Answers on a postcard
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Post by cusqueno on Mar 29, 2018 13:25:29 GMT
What is the rarest Viscount/Lambert bike.? I have seen more gold plated bikes on the internet but only one in real life , Johns. Never seen a Superbike in the real but Sooper has one. Is there another rarerer model , it may be a run of the mill model that gradually has gone to the bike shed in the sky. Corsiar Wayfarer are rare now , is there rarer? Answers on a postcard Some of the post-1980 bikes are fairly uncommon - like the Corsair Wayfarer, as you point out (but I have the men's version and the mixte one). Also the Deore 18ax (but Sooper8 has one). I think the 600ax (which I have) is relatively uncommon; but the Dura Ace AX I have never seen. See the 1982 catalogue entries here. On the other hand the Aerospace 400 and 600ex are quite often seen and I think we have two or three of each in the group. The 'Team Viscount' Dura Ace - equipped bike, said to be available either in Viscount Chro-Moly or Columbus tubing (not to be confused with mid-range 'Team Viscount' models) must be very rare and I don't recall seeing or hearing of one. The spiritual descendant of the Supabike? See this 1981 Flyer:  page_2 by Cusqueno, on Flickr |
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Post by raymondo on Mar 29, 2018 22:25:49 GMT
Interesting, the rarest models are post 1980, team and AX /dura ace.
Question do they exist outside the brochures?
Help?
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Jem
Viscount
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Posts: 3,389
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Post by Jem on Apr 4, 2018 21:10:35 GMT
I think Bustaste has a chromed Superbike.?
As with that one in the US on ebay at moment, they do seem to have a sheen or colouring under the chrome that makes them look like they are either pearl or yellowy colour. Whether this is from over-cleaning or some kind of undercoat I don't know?
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Post by eaglerock on Apr 5, 2018 0:16:39 GMT
I think Bustaste has a chromed Superbike.? As with that one in the US on ebay at moment, they do seem to have a sheen or colouring under the chrome that makes them look like they are either pearl or yellowy colour. Weather this is from over-cleaning or some kind of undercoat I don't know? It's more likely to be a tinted clear topcoat (or rather, a neutral clearcoat that's yellowed with age - perhaps a varnish or lacquer). It doesn't make sense to put an undercoat of a finishing material (lacquer, varnish, paint, polyurethane etc.) under chrome plating; the chrome won't adhere to it - indeed, it'll probably burn or melt the paint/clearcoat. Even if it would adhere, you wouldn't see anything under the chrome. Part of the confusion may result from the Italian term "cromovelato", which refers to a tinted clearcoat applied over chrome. The chrome base gives a deep, glowing effect to the colored layer. A number of Italian brands are well-known for this finish, particularly the copper-toned Wilier Triestina. If you look around, there's a fair number of red, orange and medium blue cromovelato bikes as well - far fewer examples in green, yellow and black. Here's a present-day reddish-orange cromovelato from Faggin:  There's several extended threads on Bike Forums that discuss the process. I'm inclined to side with the partially stripped clearcoat theory, if only because of my experience with my gold Lambert. It's obviously got at least one clearcoat (if not two), although I haven't figured out the chemical composition yet because I don't keep acetone around. It hasn't dissolved in alcohol, so it's probably not shellac/lacquer. I find it confusing that Lambert clearcoated gold plate, since one of the main qualities of gold is that it doesn't oxidize - you don't need to coat it to keep it shiny, just wipe the gunk off as it builds up. My guess is the clearcoat was intended to preserve the now-missing stickers/decals, rather than protect the gold. Chrome, however, is often clearcoated, mostly because frames with exposed chrome often have exposed paint as well, and the clearcoat is mostly intended to protect the paint. It may be that clearcoating was just part of Lambert/Viscount's standard finishing procedure, and they did it to every frame regardless of how the frame was finished. Overpolished chrome rubbed down to the copper underneath is certainly a possibility, but my experience has been that the very thin chrome coat is more likely to peel off the underlying copperplate (or the intermediate nickelplate, in the case of a three-layer chrome). This is more likely to create spots of contrasting colors, rather than one color thinning out into another. |
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Jem
Viscount
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Posts: 3,389
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Post by Jem on Apr 5, 2018 21:34:55 GMT
"Partially stripped clear coat theory " sounds good, and if I recall correctly that was what Busaste told me many years back (which I had forgotten but now comes back to me)
That chromed one on eBay at the moment isn't a Viscount like the one above in this thread (no brazed on bottle cage attachments being one thing missing)- so I don't know what it is...?
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Post by eaglerock on Apr 6, 2018 21:49:13 GMT
That chromed one on eBay at the moment isn't a Viscount like the one above in this thread (no brazed on bottle cage attachments being one thing missing)- so I don't know what it is...? Without having checked with the seller, I'm guessing the reason s/he's identifying an un-stickered bike as a Lambert is because the dropouts have Lambert stampings. I can't make out anything on the derailleur photos; I may need to check on a smartphone to get them big enough. The huge Atom QR nut doesn't help. Perhaps it's an early pre-Viscount experiment with full chroming: similar to the 24K, but with a final chrome plate instead of gold. I haven't made a research project of this, but has anyone seen a Lambert frame with braze-ons other than cable stops/routers? To expand on this thought, are Viscount dropouts stamped in the same way as Lamberts? The only reason I can imagine someone IDing a frame as Lambert/Viscount in the absence of any branding is because it's the only '70s-era fillet-brazed frameset they've heard of. It's clearly got a death fork, which seems like a strange replacement option for a non-L/V frame. But there are lots of other fillet-brazed frames around (although not many from the '70s-early '80s time period); it's possible that the seller's just taking a guess. |
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