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Post by aeropete on Feb 15, 2016 20:08:30 GMT
Hi everyone, My first post - new to Viscounts and new to this forum. I just wanted to show you my Aerospace Sport I won in December on ebay, and I have a couple of questions. I remembered Viscounts from first time round, but I'd never tried one - what I was missing! They really fly don't they? I am a V-CC member and have about 10 bikes in the shed, but none of them take off quite like this Sport. When I get a new bike I usually strip it down to the last nut and bolt before riding, but I'm having too much fun on this one, riding it in any fine weather we get. A full service will have to wait. The background is it was bought second hand in 1976 or 77, ridden for about 10 years and then stuck in the loft. It arrived on ebay as part of a house clearance and I met the long term owner, who had been about 11 when he was given the bike and is now 50. So I'm thinking if it was second hand in 1976/7 it is pretty early. It shows no sign of ever having had a 'Trusty' sticker on the down tube. The red mudguards are my own addition as a concession the weather and the leather saddle, badged 'Viscount', I've had for years, just waiting for the bike. I also changed the cranks, chain rings and pedals - it had a Raleigh chain wheel, a very bent Maxy left crank and a pair of very agricultural pedals. I've done my best with what I had in the parts bin. So, questions then - 1. when I start on a ride I'm getting a 'click' from the front wheel - sounds very much like one of those old mechanical milometers, but nothing is touching or hitting, it only happens under load and stops after a few miles. I'm suspecting bearing trouble, but open to suggestions please. 2. As I'm sure you will see it has the 'wrong' back wheel - a steel job, perfectly serviceable but of course I'd prefer a matching pair. The front rim is Birmalux with raised dimples round the spoke holes. So if anyone has an original back wheel they could spare for sale I'd be interested and very pleased to hear from them. Can I only attach 3 photos?    |
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robt
Viscount
Posts: 559 
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Post by robt on Feb 15, 2016 22:48:08 GMT
Welcome to the forum, aeropete!
It look like you have found yourself a 'favoured' fillet-brazed Aerospace frame there. These are much-loved by the members here, ignoring the bad press from the aluminium "Death" forks that were associated with the Viscount brand in the late 1970s. Your fork looks to be steel, so no worries on that account.
You have already discovered the pleasure to be had from such a frame that so many members here enjoy, though we like the lugged Viscount frames too. I don't need to describe how useful this forum is to new Viscount riders - take a wander around the correspondence and you should get a feel for how we get on.
I'm sure someone will come to your aid if you are looking to do a bit of light restoration - we welcome all tastes and budgets. When you do get round to taking it to bits, beware the 'press fit' bottom bracket bearings, described in detail elsewhere on the forum. Some front wheels were also fitted with sealed cartridge bearings, so you may need to research replacements before launching into an investigative strip-down. I assume you've checked that all the spokes are evenly tensioned by giving them a twang. I do have a large flanged rear wheel with a dimpled rim but, I'm sorry, it's going back into my own Sport frame soon. Anyone else able to help?
Best wishes - see the 'DFR4' thread for plans for our 2016 get-together near Warwick on 9/10 July.
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Post by sprockit on Feb 15, 2016 23:17:39 GMT
Hi, and welcome to the forum.
The Aerospace Sport is a very popular bike on the forum and one member does time trials on his, doing remarkably well competing in amongst all the modern carbon machines - so yes Viscounts do really fly along.
As for the clicking, I can't suggest much, but agree the bearings may be the cause. There people on here who know far more than me.
If you have Flickr or Photobucket you can add as many pictures as you like - and we like pictures - but if, like me, you use Photobucket, sort your shots into folders before you copy them onto here, otherwise the link breaks and they disappear!
Enjoy riding a great bike.
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Post by kickstandman on Feb 16, 2016 2:33:17 GMT
Per the wheels, I should have kept a record but
My back wheel is a Nisi Evian.
My front wheel is a Birmalux.
I'm almost positive that is how it came but I'm not positive.
Birmalux is a given but Nisi Evian has been mentioned on this forum.
Sharp, lovely bike.
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Post by kickstandman on Feb 16, 2016 2:39:44 GMT
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Post by aeropete on Feb 16, 2016 12:48:31 GMT
Thanks guys -
- For those suggestions and words of encouragement.
Please don't think me terse, but I'm away for a few days and will respond properly when I'm back.
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Jem
Viscount
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Posts: 3,390
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Post by Jem on Feb 16, 2016 14:47:00 GMT
What a great post! Very interesting.
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Post by aeropete on Feb 25, 2016 20:36:30 GMT
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Post by kickstandman on Feb 25, 2016 21:35:32 GMT
I like the Raleigh stamped crank!
Nice bike, tall for me.
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Post by Stella on Mar 1, 2016 17:01:03 GMT
Hello, and welcome. :-)
The AS is, indeed, a very popular bike. I have two (red and blue) in my fleet and love riding them. All Viscounts, really. You have experienced what I'm trying to tell everyone who mocks me with my Viscount obsession: once you rode one (assuming one in a good state), you fall in love.
The clicking could be bearings but you'd feel it when you lift the bike up and spin the wheel. Change them and see if it it disappears. One thing I'd urge you to do is giving the fork a good clean and once-over. I had clicking noises coming from the front and had to discover a rather large crack that could have been fatal.
A quick note: the sports didn't come with 'death forks'.
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Post by aeropete on Mar 2, 2016 7:41:41 GMT
Hello, and welcome. :-) The AS is, indeed, a very popular bike. I have two (red and blue) in my fleet and love riding them. All Viscounts, really. You have experienced what I'm trying to tell everyone who mocks me with my Viscount obsession: once you rode one (assuming one in a good state), you fall in love. The clicking could be bearings but you'd feel it when you lift the bike up and spin the wheel. Change them and see if it it disappears. One thing I'd urge you to do is giving the fork a good clean and once-over. I had clicking noises coming from the front and had to discover a rather large crack that could have been fatal. A quick note: the sports didn't come with 'death forks'. Hi - And thanks for the welcome. As for the front end 'click' I think 'robt' pointed me in the right direction - thanks robt - I hadn't checked the spokes and there is at least one that is flapping in the breeze, so I'll address that before looking further. The bearings I don't really suspect, they are so smooth - if they had been regular cup and cone I'd be amazed how good they are after all this time. As for Viscounts generally I'm a newbie, but I'm a fairly experienced old bike enthusiast (or possibly a fairly old experienced bike enthusiast?) with one or two 'box of bits' rebuilds behind me, so I'm delighted to discover how good Viscounts are. I also like the design details and brave, fresh approach the company took at the outset, making their own components, using the sealed bearings etc. - making not only a very interesting machine but one that rides like a dream. They clearly suffered by reputation, which must have been very frustrating. Long may they stay a niche interest - I can't afford Ephgrave or Hetchins prices! One question - what pedals did the Sport have, original spec., please? Thanks, aeropete. |
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Post by Stella on Mar 3, 2016 14:12:17 GMT
They came with various pedals. I think the most original were (fairly heavy and ugly) ones. Can't give you a name or so. My blue Sport came with those and they were bent and just horrible, so went straight in the bin. Bustaste will know.
I'd recommend to search for some Olimpic or Lyotard with rat traps. Or MKS should work to keep in period.
Update: Looking at the pics again, I think they are the original ones, even with the wrong chain set.
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robt
Viscount
Posts: 559
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Post by robt on Mar 3, 2016 16:02:41 GMT
My 1976 Sebring came with the same pedals as your Sport has, so your 'parts bin' ones may be similar to the originals as Stella suggests. I remember them being prone to cornering scrapes and corrosion, and they were a bit heavy. I'm afraid that mine went the same way as Stella's at some time in the last 40 years. Lighter ' period correct' pedals with more ground clearance are readily available, as you are probably well aware, but even the reasonably-priced ones cost as much new as some of us have paid for our Viscounts! |
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Post by aeropete on Mar 3, 2016 17:27:41 GMT
I'm suprised the pedals on mine are original spec! Someone must have had a serious lapse of taste (or more likely budget) when they were specified. Quite the ugliest pedals I've ever seen.
Pleased as well though, as it it is seldom that original pedals survive, and these have been well grounded, as robt says.
Must say I do like original spec. for any bike so I'm pleased to have them. They are not on the bike at the moment, I've got a pair of fake Lyotards with toe clips. I'll dig them out of the trash can and think better of them from now on...
Thanks to both,
aeropete
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Post by oldroadietehachapi on Mar 3, 2016 20:14:52 GMT
I'm suprised the pedals on mine are original spec! Someone must have had a serious lapse of taste (or more likely budget) when they were specified. Quite the ugliest pedals I've ever seen. I have a set like that on an old 1964 J.C. Higgins (actually a Puch). Back in the 60s, almost every affordable "ten speed" came with cheap rat trap pedals. They just seem out of place when this bike was built. They still make them and they are oh so cheap! I suppose it was a cost cutting issue. Attached is a pedal picture. The rest of the bike can be seen (since I had to pull it out for a picture) in a new thread titled "What was your first Ten Speed derailleur bike". It is in the Other Bikes area.  Cheers Jim |
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Post by aeropete on Mar 6, 2016 14:59:44 GMT
Thanks Jim, Nice bike by the look of the spec. - not at all familiar with them myself. Getting somewhere now, but still planning a major strip-down, deep clean and rebuild once I get all the mechanicals ticking over nicely. Was very lucky the other day to pick up an original rear wheel and Sugino crankset - just what I needed - off a bike with no other original equipment on it, so they will be going on soon. The click from the front wheel is on its way to being resolved. I tried another wheel and still got the click, once per revolution as before. It turned out to be a flint or metal shard embedded in the alloy rim on the braking surface, coupled with one front brake block not releasing properly. - I need to see if that was the problem with the original wheel in place too. Hope so, as I don't want to do the bearings unnecessarily. The wheel revolves beautifully, with the wheel out and turning the axle by hand it feels quite stiff - is that to be expected? Some more pics. of my bike as it is now with temporary Ofmega crankset (the bike came to me with Raleigh chainwheel and very bent Sugino LH crank) :        Enjoying finding my way round the forum - thanks all. aeropete |
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Post by Stella on Mar 10, 2016 17:39:03 GMT
Really lovely. Just looking at the close-ups: makes me so happy to see that yet another Viscount has been rescued and will be back on the roads, soon, rolling proudly!
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Post by aeropete on Mar 10, 2016 18:21:01 GMT
Thanks Stella,
I'll be keeping it stock, just cleaning, servicing and preserving.
I definitely have a front wheel bearing change to do though - I'm nervous of damaging anything and would be grateful for any pointers. At present the axle is stuck fast and I daren't hit it hard enough, I'm scared of damaging the axle or hub. I'm trying to devise some sort of press.
Any ideas what the 'factory' method was?
aeropete.
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Post by Stella on Mar 10, 2016 18:32:58 GMT
Be brave, Pete. I normally leave the nut on and hit it. Same when the bearinng's stuck on the axle. As long as you don't hit the end of the axle and mushroom it. I did that in the beginning and had some fun with 'restoring' the threads with a Stanley knife. Yay.
Good luck.
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robt
Viscount
Posts: 559
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Post by robt on Mar 10, 2016 22:55:48 GMT
My two penn'orth - When I removed by crunchy b/b bearings from my Sport, I destroyed the bearing cages with the axle in place by taking a small (2 or 3mm) drill bit to the bearing cages between the bearing shells (behind the plastic seal) and carefully drilling through the bearing cages in between the balls until they were in enough pieces to pick out all the bits, including the balls, with some needle nose pliers. (Try not to drill into the shell of the hub!) That will at least release your axle from the outer bearing shell, but with the inner bearing shell still attached to the axle. With both cages fragmented, I was able to slide the axle out through the (full bore) b/b housing, leaving the outer bearing shells in place. I then used a drift (aka screwdriver & hammer) through the b/b to drive the outer bearing shells out, and the same again to drive the inner shells off the axle. I suspect that the central part of your hub will not be big enough to allow the axle to be withdrawn with the inner bearing shell still attached, but it might be a simpler job to remove the inner shell from the axle than trying to shear all the siezed/bonded bearing faces at the same time with a hammer - the corroded bearing cages might just collapse anyway under that kind of sideways force.
Good luck.
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Post by aeropete on Mar 11, 2016 17:42:27 GMT
Axle out! - These Viscounts are not for the faint-hearted are they? Got the axle out today - first I tried the subtle approach, trying to press it out using an old valve spring compressor: -  Which ended in tears, and proves just how strongly the bearings were bedded in: -  (No great loss, haven't used it for 35 years) Then tried Stella's 'get a bigger hammer' approach, with an old cone pretecting the threads and a loose panhead bolt protecting the end: -  Which as you can see worked, and took out the opposite bearing into the bargain, and the threads stayed good, so all good so far: -  So I reckon I can get that bearing off the axle by similar means, but what do I do about the bearing still firmly bedded in the hub? There isn't much to get hold of using a drift down the inside of the hub axle hole. Heat the hub/freeze the bearing? Soak in GT85? drill? all input welcomed, thanks. Do we reckon the bearings were bonded in in some way, and expected to last the useful life of the bike? I have another similar front wheel which looks the part (dimpled Weinmann on Sunshine LF hub) so I'm riding OK, no great rush. So once again thanks Stella, and robt I'm sure the BB tips will come in useful but mine is OK for now, all good stuff and much appreciated, thanks. aeropete. |
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Post by oldroadietehachapi on Mar 11, 2016 18:13:24 GMT
If a drift won't work it can be difficult. When drilling, it is easy to damage the hub as you are drilling a very hard surface set in a soft hub. Heating the hub will help but you still need to exert force on the bearing. I have been looking for an affordable bearing puller that is small enough for the job. A pilot bearing puller (like the one in attached picture) can be adjusted down to about 12mm and might make it.  These guys www.enduroforkseals.com/id197.html have the correct puller (picture attached) but at $189; I would prefer an affordable alternative.  An expensive puller is available on eBay ($7); I do not know if you can generate enough force, without breaking it. www.ebay.com/itm/Enduro-Small-Bearing-Puller-Tool-8-25mm-/381566638314?hash=item58d724d8ea:g:x2wAAOSwYlJW4kWQAttachment Deleted I am interested in seeing your solution. Cheers Jim |
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robt
Viscount
Posts: 559
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Post by robt on Mar 11, 2016 21:12:43 GMT
Well done on removing the axle! You have allowed me to learn that the bearing sits in an unthreaded section of the axle - I had wondered how the threads would sit square in the inner bearing shell. In your shoes, I might be tempted to try to find one of these in a size (both diameter and length) that would just go through the hub centre: www.melfast.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/expansion-bolts.jpgThen tighten the nut so that the wedge bolt expanded the wings on the fastener behind the bearing. Once in place, smack the plug and bearing firmly from the 'nut' end of the fastener. It might, of course, cause irreperable harm to your hub if the dimensions aren't right  . Just a thought. |
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Post by aeropete on Mar 12, 2016 8:23:46 GMT
Thanks guys - I can see there is very little room for an extractor between the back of the bearing and the hub - there actually seems to have been more room behind the bearing that did come out, maybe I picked the unlucky side to hit? I'll try the expanding bolt idea but all I have found so far is 8mm and 10mm, and of course we need 9mm. If that fails I think it is down to my LBS - cartridge bearings seem quite widespread these days, Viscount were ahead of there time perhaps, and I'd expect my LBS to have the tools. There is this - linkWhich looks a like the set Jim flagged up, but much cheaper and ought to do all three bearings on an Aerospace frame - but I'm not sure it is worth the investment just now. regards, aeropete |
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Post by Stella on Mar 12, 2016 13:49:44 GMT
Yep, Viscounts are special and need special people to work on.
To get the dreaded stuck bearing out, I have a simple tool: an angled Allen key, which my former colleague put to the grinder, so it fits just in the tiny gap between hub and bearing. It needs to be tapped out carefully, by going round the bearing, in order to not damage the hub and ensure the new bearing will sit snug.
I'm still thinking about other solutions, same for removing stuck bearings from the BB. I think Busaste uses a tool I can't remember the name of and it's just driving me nuts as I know its name.
Collet, it's collet! Yay.
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Post by aeropete on Mar 12, 2016 18:48:18 GMT
Well the next bit was easier than I thought - Second bearing out of hub: -The hole in the hub is 10.2mm, the bolt in the picture is 10mm, so the bolt goes through the hub but not the bearing (9mm). One whack and it was out, just supporting the hub in my hand. I've noticed the bearing-to-axle joint is much stronger than the bearing-to-hub bond. The bearing shows traces of some kind of adhesive - Loctite? used on assembly, so I'll do the same. There was 14mm of axle thread showing outside each bearing, and 67.5mm of axle between the inner bearing faces. The chamfers in the hub to fit a removal collet are not symetrical, one looked like this: - one side: -and the other like this: - other side :Waiting for the new bearings to arrive now. The originals were FAG 6000-629RS, Im going same again. Thanks for all the advice - I hope I've also provided something here that is useful. aeropete |
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Post by oldroadietehachapi on Mar 12, 2016 21:50:59 GMT
Now that is what I call a cost effective tool!
Great Job
Jim
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Post by aeropete on Oct 9, 2016 13:24:32 GMT
Hi all, Very good to bump into you all and say a few 'hello's at Roses Cafe last Sunday. I couldn't join you, I was leading a V-CC ride at the time and we had only dropped in to Roses' to see if it was not too busy, so quite some coincidence. Even more so, since I was riding my newly refurbished Viscount for the first time - not so fresh from ebay any more, but here is the 'as found' - December 2015 and here the 'as is' - October 2016 . Have fitted new tyres, tubes, cables, bar tape, front wheel bearings, sourcing a correct Birmalux/Viscount rear wheel and Sugino Maxy chainwheel and cranks and done a complete strip down, deep clean and polish, touch up and rebuild. Oh and a downtube Viscount sticker... Hope to join you on a DFR another time. Best regards, Pete F. |
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. Just a thought.