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Post by raymondo on Nov 3, 2019 22:06:06 GMT
What does one do? If I cant get a viscount axel , whats the best stock solution? So far rocking horse manure is easier to find.
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robt
Viscount
Posts: 558
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Post by robt on Nov 3, 2019 22:23:56 GMT
What does one do? If I cant get a viscount axel , whats the best stock solution? So far rocking horse manure is easier to find. Ray, I’ve used the YST threadless b/b available from SJS or Spa Cycles, which seem to be OK so long as your cranks have the standard (?) square taper fit. Not a purist’s solution, but effective. That does mean that I have a spare A/S Pro axle (and a set of new press-fit bearings) if you really want to go for the original set-up.
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Post by raymondo on Nov 6, 2019 2:30:38 GMT
Thanks. Rob, The frame lugless and is repainted and not original enough for using a push fit . Saying that its stickered up as a pro and looks ok but a resto mod would be better so im probably going for the YST. Is itthe 68mm with 113 for double crank, 122-125 for triple? Can you advise of the exact specification? Loctite it in as well i would imagine. I am going for a non stock crank not sure of what yet as i have never done this before. I suppose its like putting a modern engine in a morris minor, Cheers Ray
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Post by wheelson on Nov 7, 2019 15:53:07 GMT
As you may have discovered, in order to use the VST you may have to trim the protruding tube ends in the bottom bracket shell. I have two Viscounts, the first has a modified setup using the "bottom bracket hack" I documented here last year (?). The second V is in the build up stage, and for this one I tapped the bb out to Italian threads but used some titanium sealed cups I found on eBay from a Canadian seller. This was really a bear as while turning in the cups, the bearings press onto the axle AND the cups all in one operation. Glad that's done, should have used a conventional Italian ball cup and axle but that's just the engineer in me - overthinking everything. This second V is meant to be trick, though, complete with sewup (sprint) tires, while my first V is set up with conventional tires and a very low geared triple. Photos will be posted as soon as I can get them uploaded to Flickr. Best, John "Wheelson" Wilson Western Pennsylvania USA
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Post by trevorm on Feb 10, 2020 9:56:28 GMT
robt: I saw in your post that you had a spare Aerospace Pro axle, which I am in need of to keep my refurbishment project machine to its original spec. I am afraid that although using a torque wrench, my axle bolt sheared when fitting the left hand crank, and I can not get it out as the extractor has also broken within the bolt.
I would rather (if possible) keep with the original set up (although my colour scheme will be different.) Are you UK located ? I will PM you if I can find out how to do this - I understand you will also need to have your forum settings allowing you to receive PMs.
My machine is from around 1980, and I have owned it from new; have just spent a considerable sum on the renovation (more than the bike is worth) as a winter project, and am now held up by this BB problem.
trevorm
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Post by Admin on Feb 10, 2020 19:55:09 GMT
Trevor - I just dropped you a PM
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robt
Viscount
Posts: 558
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Post by robt on Feb 11, 2020 11:00:51 GMT
robt: I saw in your post that you had a spare Aerospace Pro axle, which I am in need of to keep my refurbishment project machine to its original spec. I am afraid that although using a torque wrench, my axle bolt sheared when fitting the left hand crank, and I can not get it out as the extractor has also broken within the bolt.
I would rather (if possible) keep with the original set up (although my colour scheme will be different.) Are you UK located ? I will PM you if I can find out how to do this - I understand you will also need to have your forum settings allowing you to receive PMs.
My machine is from around 1980, and I have owned it from new; have just spent a considerable sum on the renovation (more than the bike is worth) as a winter project, and am now held up by this BB problem.
trevorm
Trevor, PM reply sent, with photos. The axle's from an A/S Sport, but you're welcome to it if you can use it. Rob.
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Post by trevorm on Feb 11, 2020 15:38:13 GMT
Hi Rob.
PM received, thanks. I have sent you a further PM with my contact details as it looks as if your axle etc. will be good for my project.
Will post up a picture or two when it is completed.
trevorm
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Post by trevorm on Feb 22, 2020 8:13:44 GMT
As a follow up to the above, and as a result of Robt's kind assistance in providing me with his complete Bottom Bracket paraphernalia, my Aerospace Pro project is now well on the way to completion. Another week of parts cleaning and reassembly should see it just about there.
Having now pressed in a Bottom bracket twice, I think I can say with suitable tools, the job is 'doable,' although probably not as straightforward as going the threadless route. In my case, I used a large vice, large G clamp, 3 legged puller, plus a few suitably sized washers and tubing lengths. Initially I had a workshop remove the axle and bearings using a hydraulic press, but this was before the frame had been repainted - if I was worried about damaging the paintwork, I would now do this using the tools mentioned (which I did when replacing the axle the second time.
Thanks Rob for your great help in supplying the necessary parts.
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Post by franco on Apr 26, 2020 20:40:27 GMT
Took a quick look a the outer of the BB today and I can see any kind of maintenance will be fun and games. Going by other folks dimensions and various blogs I’m guessing THESE are the correct sealed bearings? Don’t fancy trimming protruding tubes down to fit a cartridge.
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Post by trevorm on Apr 27, 2020 6:41:42 GMT
Yes, they are the correct size, and I think a good bit cheaper than I paid for mine, although from your link they appear to receive good reviews. Personally, as it is a job one would not wish to have to perform too often, I would suggest opting towards the high quality versions although these would probably be around double the price.
As an update to my entries above, I can report my Aerospace Pro renovation is now complete apart from servicing and fitting a replacement RH pedal (which I have obtained courtesy of Ebay.) Hope to find out how to show some photos on this site soon, to 'put it on show.' I have a different problem now with my alloy framed Specialized having its seat post seized in by corrosion - ah well, it gives me something to think about during the lockdown!
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Post by franco on Apr 27, 2020 16:27:14 GMT
Thanks Trevor.
There is slight movement in the crank, nothing major, so I think I’ll live with it for now. It’s not a full restoration and I won’t be clocking up a lot of miles on it, just one I’m doing to use around town. If it gets worse obviously I’ll have to do it.
Ah, a stuck seat post, I did one yesterday. A proper pain it was. Which method you thinking of using?
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Post by trevorm on Apr 27, 2020 17:38:54 GMT
Hello Franco,
At the moment I am being gentle and feeding it with Plus Gas penetrating oil; I think it will need more forceful persuasion eventually, probably with a bit of heat application. If the worst comes to the worst it is currently set at the right height for me and I can use it quite happily, but I would rather free it if I can.
Do you have any other suggestions - how did you free off yours?
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Post by franco on Apr 27, 2020 17:50:18 GMT
I lost my patience with this one and cut it out with a reciprocating saw down the length of the stem. Normally if heat doesn’t work I’d take the BB out, block the post up so no fluid can leak out and spray a load of penetrating fluid down the seat tube with the bike upside down. Leave it for a few days to soak, try moving it then repeat. Not really an option with these BB’s though is it.
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Post by brianbutler on Apr 27, 2020 19:57:57 GMT
I have had luck placing a piece of wood over the end and giving it a blow with a heavy hammer to break the corrosion without torquing or bending the seat tube. I think this was after using penetrating oil from the top.
If you have water bottle bosses you can remove a screw and inject penetrating oil from the bottom that way.
Brian
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Post by franco on Apr 27, 2020 20:31:19 GMT
I tried fluid from the top and a block of wood, I marked the post with a pencil and it did move down a little with a few blows. So then tried mole grips to twist it, they started chewing the post up. By this point I had a post that was even lower than to begin with and getting chewed where the seat clamps on, no turning back. That’s when the recip saw came out. I’ve seen RJ the bike guy use one in his videos so thought why not.
It’s a bit of a brutal method but not as bad as using caustic soda.
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Post by franco on Jul 26, 2020 13:43:45 GMT
A question for the more experienced; would there be any advantage to using stainless steel bearing races on one of these BB’s?
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Post by brianbutler on Jul 27, 2020 0:11:30 GMT
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe stainless steel is very hard.
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Post by wheelson on Jul 27, 2020 3:02:10 GMT
All depends on the grade of stainless and the ability to harden and temper. A grade 440C quenched and tempered or a 17-7PH as used in tools or aircraft components can be quite hard. Stainless is used in a lot of sealed bearings because of the geometry of the bearings and the races (usually grooves), not so much in ball/cup/cone systems. The new thing is ceramic.
The methods of hardening for a high carbon steel used for many years in bearing races effect longevity. Cheaper races in cup and cone systems may only be case hardened instead of through hardened. With case hardening, the bearing will eventually wear through the hardened layer then start pitting or fretting the unhardened layer.
Best advice if you're going to use the sealed bearings is to find a good general bearing supplier with a web page that explains the different grades of bearings available and their uses. However, as you plug in the dimensions or the number for the bearing you need, say for a Viscount bottom bracket, you may find yourself limited in the selection. Get a good quality bearing, sealed inside and out. They last a long time and replacing the original type bottom bracket bearings on a Viscount is no fun. At the shop I contract with, we're seeing a lot of sealed bottom bracket units on entry level bikes needing replacement in only a year or so.
All this being said, I love stainless steel and replace all the nuts, bolts, and washers with ss every chance I get. It can be polished to almost look like chrome and saves a lot of maintenance, especially if you have more than one bike or live near the ocean or commute in damp weather. But you don't have to worry about that in Britain, right???!!!
Best, John "wheelson"
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Post by franco on Jul 27, 2020 14:38:59 GMT
Thanks for the advice John. I don’t live near the sea but it’s a ‘rainy island‘ as my American friends say. I rotate my bikes as well so every so often one Or another won’t get used for a while.
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