Viscount Bottom Bracket Hack

Yes, the bearing in the sacrificial bb was 173110-2RS with spec's of 17mm ID and 31mm OD. Obviously the bearing OD is too small, but I fortunately had some new 6003's on hand and everything went together nicely. I haven't installed the outer press fit bushings as described in place of the snap ring yet, probably not necessary, although the non-drive side 6003 went in a bit easier than the drive side. I didn't use any Loctite on the bearings on installation as this was very much experimental. I like the fact that the new axle has the inner flange to limit movement of the bearing inboard. Also nice that the retail for the Sunlite bb unit is US$18 and should be available anywhere in various lengths up to 127.5mm - I used 122. I found a titanium axle on eBay for US$55.
Best,
John "wheelson" Wilson

Gents

I have my frame repainted and new 6003 bottom bracket bearings and spindle but my bike shop man can't get the new ones back into the bracket
Can you give me a blow by blow way of doing this as I am getting desperate to put the bike back together
Thank you
Richard

rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F112805643362

I used a headset press bought from E Bay with some large nylon washers on for the Lambert. Did one side at a time and they went in quite easily.

The issue was the spindle though and that took brute force and a rather large lump hammer, just don’t believe there to be a better way........

I put a crank bolt in the spindle to protect it then hit that. The force required wa far more than I expected but it did go eventually. To projtect the opposite end I made a wooden jig to hold the frame in place, it was basic and crude but ensured I didn’t slip. As I said the force was far more than I expected to have to use but from reading forums this seems the norm.

Thanks, Jem, for pointing to this post.

Very interesting and useful information re the Sunlite BB.

Steve: 125mm, eh? I'll keep that in mind.

My apologies for not being on here much, but I haven't forgotten about you all, and definitely not lost my passion for Viscounts. Looking forward to see you at the DFR!

Interesting information about the Sunlite although on a quick look it doesn't look available close to me in germany.
I have just revamped a Viscount spindle (2 groove type) which had a realy wobbly fit to the TA cranks. I found that the tapper was distorted, probably from hammering out stubborn bearings. I set up a grinding disc to accurately regrind each of the 8 faces which worked out ok. Now the cranks fit well. I did notice the steel to be soft to work, unlike normal shimano shafts with bearing surfaces. Also I noticed that the square tappers didn't line up to each other accurately and were around 1.5° different. I guess this could mean that the pedaling force from the left crank could have twisted the shaft against the resistance through the chainwheel. Or the spindle just wasn't made any better in the first place. Anyway I hope its not a sign of an a pending failure.
So yeah, I just got this spindle with frame recently and have no idea of it's history, and would warn any one hammering out the spindles to take good care.
Anyone know what the bolt threading is? The heads measure 13.2mm (17/32")and none of my other crank bolts fit in, so I guess its an imperial size.

Steve

[quote author="schrauber" I am preparing my frame for painting and found that with the powder coating the bearings to be a tight fit, but when striped down to the metal the bearings just fall in/out. Also my spindle has more of a loose fit inside the bearings."

My original "hack" by dismembering the Sunlite sealed hub was purely experimental to say the least. To permanently fix the sealed bottom bracket situation I would probably recommend either the threadless sealed unit or re tapping the bb to Italian threading. BOTH solutions will require trimming the protruding tubing ends inside the bb shell, in my case anyhow, as my Italian tap has a long lead that hits the tubes before it can cut threads. So if you have the frame all the way stripped, consider trimming those tubes.
Best,
John "wheelson"

quote blackwizard" It certainly is not the best B.B. system in the world and quite a task to replace the bearings but in fairness how often would you need to do this?"

I like the sealed bearing bottom bracket. It's one of the things that drew me to the Lambert's way back when. That's why I stuck with the concept when I started building my mongrel Viscount. I ended up with the "hybrid" setup that I wrote about in the "hack". Close to the original but no snap rings on the bb axle. As tight as everything went back together, I'm not worried. I rebuilt the hubs as well, using the original bearing types. Those bearings definitely weren't going to last forever! I think that was harder than the b.bracket. Lovin' every minute of it!
Best,
John "Wheelson"

Thanks for the tips.
I had a VS Sport back in 76, my first bike I ever bought new. Twas a new start after the whole garage burnt down. Anyway, I replaced the BB bearings twice in a fairly short time as they aquired some play. Probably they would have lasted longer, had I been more patient.
I didn't have a problem with them back then, rather I was interested in the technology. Once I removed the circlips and tapped the spindle through a little more to run a triple. Worked fine without the clips for the short time I tried it.

As a few others here, I am keen to keep those special Viscount (or rather Lambert) inventions as for me they are what makes these bikes special. Still it's a great backup to know about the italian solution and the Sunlite.

On other cranks I've successfully used loctite to take up space and fix bearings, shafts and worn spines in cranks. Also on my VS hubs the bearings were sometimes looser, and it did the job. So I don't expect this will be much different.
Also the new paint should return some of the tight fit.

I do quite enjoy what challenges bikes in general can present to me. For example the other week I turned up my first thread in the lathe to make a 23mm puller for the TA crank. Yep took a while, but it worked out. I don't know if it's one of my more stupid ideas, but I am thinking of making my own spindle either from scratch or converting an worn out regular one by grindling off the shoulders and sleeving it to the bearing size. But hey, I don't need a complete replacement yet.

Steve

The key issue isn't replacing the bottom bracket; it's replacing the cranks, which have a stronger potential to wear out (assuming, as you say, the spindle doesn't break first).

My introduction to Lambert-Viscountland came not through the purchase of a bike/frame, but through the purchase of a Lambert crankset. Almost ten years ago, I bought a 50.4 crankset off a Craigslist listing in San Francisco; the cannabis-saturated hipster who sold them to me falsely described them as a Specialites TA Pro V*. I was starting to amass a collection of 50.4 chainrings, and TA was the natural crankset for TA rings. For over a year, I struggled to keep my crankset snug on a normal-taper Phil Wood bottom bracket. I had to tighten the crankbolts at least twice a week. It was only after the bottom bracket self-destructed that I took the whole thing apart again, and discovered that the BB taper and the crank "taper" didn't match, as the crank had no taper at all.

So of course it didn't stay tightened - there was only a thin ridge of contact between the crank and the bottom bracket, at the one point on the spindle taper where the spindle's cross-section and the crank's hole matched. That didn't provide enough friction to keep the cranks in place as pedaling helped push the crankarms outward, so the crankarms kept loosening up.

In the event that a Lambert untapered spindle breaks, there are no new replacements; everyone else makes normal 4° tapered spindles. You either get a Lambert spindle that's as old as your broken one and take your chances, or switch to a normal tapered spindle and replace your crankset. At least the spindle's steel; unless there's a traumatic failure like a break at the circlip, it's likely to last quite a while.

But what if your crankset goes first? Alloy is a lot softer than steel; there's a reason you hear about cranks breaking/wearing out, but you almost never hear about spindles breaking. If your crank goes, there is literally no new option. If you can't find an old Lambert crank in acceptable condition, then you have to replace both the crank and the bottom bracket, or you get my problem in reverse with a tapered crank on an untapered spindle.

* In all honesty, the stinky hipster probably didn't know the difference any better than I did at the time. Hipster fashions have changed from track bikes to touring bikes since then; he may have learned over the years.