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Post by 54roadie on Jun 22, 2015 3:45:12 GMT
I did this ride for the third time over the weekend. 24 Hour Challenge As pics and more information come in, I'll start putting things on here. So, I rode my CF Giant Defy for the first 194 miles. Very hilly, and that bike sports a 34 x 25 low gear. Despite the fact that Chicago is so flat that I can ride 60 miles - 100 kilometers - wherein the biggest hill is the expressway overpass, I managed to stay with the lead group, riding at race speeds, until I got dropped like a cold wet stone about 10 miles in on one of the first serious uphills. Hung in with various other groups as they caught and then dropped me, until check point two where I met up with my riding friends and we finished the first 121.9 mile loop in something under 7 hours. Rode three repeats of the 24 mile 2nd loop, one more than last time. It's supposed to be faster riding the longer loop, since you spend less time stopped at checkpoints, but for me, doing a fourth one would have been well into diminishing returns as it has some long painful climbs that just suck life from my legs. Then I switched to my Viscount Aerospace Pro, with it's CF fork and TT aero bars for the 7.5 mile, mostly flat, night loop. That was THE ticket for the rest of my ride. The tubular wheels and tyres ride better, and certainly climb better than the not-all-that-heavy wheels on the Defy. The handling is so crisp and tight, and I don't have to think about the line I want, just look where I want to go and that's where I end up. The only drawback to 1970's tech was in the shifting. At night, in the dark, it was much harder to shift smoothly and trim the shift with the same hand. That course is flat on two and a half sides of it's rectangular route, the fourth side is a lovely long downhill, ending in a corner that goes down for a few more meters before beginning a nearly half mile climb back towards the start/finish. I was very happy that I switched to a 24 tooth low gear freewheel from the 20 tooth that had been on. I managed 16 repeats finished before 8am. I set a PR of 315.5 miles, finished in somewhat better shape than last year, and was able to provide some pulling assistance to my friend Pascale Lercangee in her very successful quest for the overall women's mileage title. To put it in perspective, though, when I sit down, it takes two hands to get back up. Off to bed. Frank |
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Post by velocipete on Jun 22, 2015 6:07:03 GMT
Awesome Frank,very well done.
Cheers,
Pete.
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bendo
Viscount
Posts: 538 
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Post by bendo on Jun 22, 2015 7:53:45 GMT
Another warrior back from battle. You guys! You almost make a commuter want to take up racing... Seriously though, great effort. And a great report. Thanks for taking the time to post even though you probably should have been sleeping!
Down tube shifting is certainly a different craft to using brifters. And I'm sure it's doubly hard to go from one to the other in mid stream. Not only that but if you're going from having 10 speeds on the back to only 5, you're probably going to find it hard to get that perfect gear. Maybe next time you'll try the whole thing on the Viscount?
b
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Post by whippet on Jun 22, 2015 18:46:51 GMT
Great stuff Frank. Really impressive that you got the PB and over 300 miles is very respectable. I'm feeling slightly inspired, may give my clubs 12 hour a go next year.
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Jem
Viscount
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Post by Jem on Jun 22, 2015 21:34:41 GMT
What a great write up! I was out of breath just reading it.
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Post by triitout on Jun 23, 2015 2:07:48 GMT
Frank, hearty congratulations on just being able to ride for 24 hours and no less setting a PR. I for one simply cannot imagine sitting on a bike for so long and going so far! My arse hurts just thinking about it  . How did you handle your nutritional needs?...gels, sports drinks, real food? Totally epic. This even makes the bike leg of an ironman distance triathlon look like a walk in the park. Hope you recover quickly, and by the way, how long does it take to want to go for a ride again??  |
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Post by triitout on Jun 23, 2015 2:13:33 GMT
Another warrior back from battle. You guys! You almost make a commuter want to take up racing... Seriously though, great effort. And a great report. Thanks for taking the time to post even though you probably should have been sleeping! Down tube shifting is certainly a different craft to using brifters. And I'm sure it's doubly hard to go from one to the other in mid stream. Not only that but if you're going from having 10 speeds on the back to only 5, you're probably going to find it hard to get that perfect gear. Maybe next time you'll try the whole thing on the Viscount? b Bendo, the flip side to your comment is that after many years of racing triathlons, it almost makes me want to take up bike commuting  I've found when riding the 10 speed Viscount and not being able to find the perfect gear, I'll error up to a harder gear as to not spin out thereby getting me going faster on the Viscount than I'd expect. |
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Post by 54roadie on Jun 23, 2015 13:27:23 GMT
Thanks to all for your kind thoughts. It's a great event, one of the "always the best" rides I go on regularly, the other one being the MS 150 charity ride coming up this weekend. (I must be crazy.) The organization is so well run, the check points are never a problem, everyone is extremely cheerful, even at 4 or 5 am, it's just amazing. They have a group of 15 or 20 who find and coordinate 150 volunteers, plus the local sheriffs, who do wonderful and supportive work the entire time. It's physically brutal, but it's so much fun. And it's a "Challenge" not a "Race," so if you just want to ride for fun, and then stop, go ahead. Wonderful event, this year we had riders from Japan and Brazil, so to all my UK and Australian friends (Whippet, maybe you?) come on over! I lived in the area for many years and still belong to the local bike club, so if it helps to entice anyone to try it, I'll find you a bed, or at least a couch, for the duration, no charge and very good company. whippet, yes, do give the 12 hour a try. Post up some details and I'll offer what meager tips and advice I can. You will surprise yourself. Leather saddles, well broken in, were highly visible. Best personal tip I can give! Bendo, regarding the shifting with fewer gears on hand, Michael is on the same track that I found myself on. It worked out well, actually encouraging me to ride faster at a time when slower was where my mind wanted to go. The big issue with my Viscount was the freewheel I swapped in is a SunTour Ultra 7, and while the chain will run on those narrower cogs, the Jubilee rear derailleur wont span the distance, nor will it, in combination with Campy dt shifters, shift smoothly between the six it will reach. Some of that is just fatigue and riding in the dark. Things improved as it got lighter, which is both a visual and mental thing I need to master. The weird thing about going back and forth, which I've been doing in training, as well, is that I find myself reaching for my dt shifters when on the Defy, and looking for paddles under the brake levers of the Viscount - it works both ways. Michael, as you know from triathlons, and whippet and others from TTs, position is EVERYTHING. I have had to pay so much attention to how I sit on my bike under different conditions, and how I spin on flats vs rollers vs climbs that it makes my poor head spin, so to speak. I have a tendency to crunch up and move forward on the saddle, which simply doesn't work for 24 hours. Many's the time when I had to focus, a LOT, on sliding back just a bit, and relaxing both abs and low back into the clean position that works best for me. But then another hill comes along and you start the whole thing over  A decided lack of hill climbing skills and strength is my weakest link, followed by nutrition. I haven't been a fan of gels, even less so of that um, stuff, like Heed, that others put in their bottles and swear by. My friend Pascale has this down to a science, 11 or 12 premixed water bottles in a cooler, each with it's own number, and equal bottles of water, so she rolls through check point 4 (start finish) and lets the crew know what she wants, swaps the bottles and out she rolls. 20 seconds, tops. Having volunteered to help her to her very impressive victory (at 50 years old, she tied for the overall women's mileage at - are you ready? - 424.3 miles) I pulled pace for about 100 miles with her and I'm blown away by the attention to nutritional detail. I ate junk, mostly. cheap, soft fruit & grain bars, mini- Mounds coconut and dark chocolate bars (not recommended) and sandwiches made of peanut butter and pickles, turkey slices with tomatoes and gobs of mayo, and a concoction I made up that ended up revolting. No, I won't tell you. That needs to improve next year, obviously. I'm going to post this now and get to work. Otherwise I'll spend the whole day blathering on about this event and the post will overload the servers. If I can get some good pics up, though, I will post again later. |
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Post by whippet on Jun 23, 2015 18:32:36 GMT
Really good info Frank :-) I'm a recent convert to peanut butter sandwiches, sometimes there's just no substitute for real food.
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Post by 54roadie on Jun 27, 2015 4:07:16 GMT
Hello everyone! Finally, some photos to post from the event. Just start and finish, so far.  At the start, about 0755, June 20, 2015 National 24 Hour Challenge w/ Pascale  Finish, 0745, June 21, on the Viscount  At the finish with Pascale. We both achieved PR - me at 315.5 miles, she at a phenomenal 423.4 miles, to take the cup! At this point I didn't believe how good I felt. Not nearly as beat up as last year, despite the extra 7 miles. That does NOT mean it was easy to get all the way off the bike, and I certainly wasn't getting back ON it. Love that Viscount. The extra height I put in the risers (70mm total) made both breathing and visibility much easier, and that played a significant role in why it was less punishing this time. If I find more decent shots of the event, I'll post. Happy riding, Frank |
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bendo
Viscount
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Post by bendo on Jun 27, 2015 11:50:44 GMT
Again, well done Frank. You really make me think that this is where real cycling lies. For me, Lance Armstrong and the rest of the pro Peloton killed professional racing, in spite of the efforts of Wiggo and Cadel. 'Challenges' like this and the Paris-Brest-Paris are where it's at. I admire the British clubman ideal of previous generations: riding the bike to the race, racing, then riding it home again. Local, amateur, personal, real. Inspiring stuff.
You fitted an Ultra 7 in a Viscount frame? Did you have it cold set to 130mm or was it still 126mm? I'm sure the Jubilee would manage a six. b
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Post by triitout on Jun 27, 2015 16:13:29 GMT
Nice pictures and it looks like the weather cooperated. Just a few thoughts on nutrition. For what it's worth, this is what I've learned when doing a 6+ hour long course triathlon. Biking burns about 750-850 calories/hour and you only want to replace 25-33% of those calories (200-250/hr) in consideration of your gut absorption/tolerance. 60-80% of replacement calories with drinks and gels. I've used Ironman Perform for the extra sodium and tolerable/pleasant lemon-lime flavor and Power Gels with extra caffeine which has shown to help with alertness and a feel of reduced effort. Very popular are Salt Sticks, capsules of Na, K electrolytes to help with muscle cramping. I like to rip open a little bag of 100 calorie snack packs to get my real food in. 24 hours is a whole different animal but I applied this my last two Ironman 70.3 races and it worked. I lifted this info from an article by Dave Scott, former 6 time world champion at Hawaii Ironman. I stayed very disciplined on the bike and run getting my nutrition in and for me it was the difference between finishing and DNFing. But dude, 24 hours with no nutrition plan,....you are just plain STRONG!!! I know you made the bike size work, but I can't help but think a bigger frame would be a better fit, but it's amazing how you can adapt/adjust with new stems and seat posts. Great writeup and great job!!
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Post by 54roadie on Jun 29, 2015 5:09:21 GMT
Bendo, I think you're right, but it goes back farther than Lance. In-helmet headsets have taken much of the heroism and adventure out of the races, and the Tours have largely become made-for-TV daily serials, rather than duke-it-out-on-the-bike contests of physical abilities, depth of character, and risk-it-all gambles. Having now ridden the 24 three times, I actually look forward to it. Intimate and real.
Yes, I fitted the Ultra 7 on to the Viscount hub without re-spacing the frame. All I had to do was move one washer from left to right sides of the axle, and re-dish the wheel about 1/2 turn per right side spoke. It's only 2mm wider than the Regina 6 I'm currently using, but that is just enough to keep the Jubilee unhappy. My frame measures 127mm inside spacing.
Michael, thank you for that info. Yes, caffeine goes a long way - I drank 4 or 5 iced coffee latte bottles from late afternoon through the night. Cramping was an issue last year, but not this, and I have no explanation. For next year I will do a better nutrition execution. It will include honey and raisins, and only maybe prepackaged gels.
I bought the small frame on purpose, but you're right, it's a bit too small and short, I'll have to see about doing a full parts swap on to a large frame for next year. At the very least it will help improve my vision. But that will necessitate a shorter stem, and I want to use bar end shifters next season, too. but I really, really want to keep the weight low, so the shifters and frame mean lighter parts elsewhere. Those typically aren't cheap.
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bendo
Viscount
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Post by bendo on Jun 29, 2015 23:49:34 GMT
Ah, interesting. You're a much more accomplished mechanic than I, redishing a wheel to squeeze in an extra cog! Those Suntour Ultras are amazing things and I don't blame you for going for the overspec solution. Jubilees are beautiful things too but a little bit, um... French. IOW not over-engineered but capable of doing what they do really well so long as you don't ask too much.
Three times! You're a monster... b
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bendo
Viscount
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Post by bendo on Jun 30, 2015 0:24:08 GMT
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Post by 54roadie on Jun 30, 2015 20:33:00 GMT
Yes, Bendo, I really wanted the 24t low on the Ultra 7, and I was still able to run a 52 x 13 no problem, which is just the right big gear for the night loop. I'm thinking SunTour bar-cons next year, maybe I can find some decent Accushifts on eBay that aren't too costly, then find a Superbe Pro or other Accushift 7 speed rear mech and go that route. Added weight though, sigh.
There is no such thing as a 7 speed 13 - 24 Ultra, unfortunately, as that would really make for some sweet gearing.
I agree wholeheartedly on the Jubilee; beautiful to see, phenomenally light (especially with the Bullseye pulleys, HA), relatively smooth shifting, but they will not be overstressed without consequences. Oh well.
And I have to ride this event next year, too. A bit of friendly competition between me and a good riding friend, Mike. He's at 354 miles, and wants 400 next year. Can't let him have the top spot two years in a row, now, can I? But that means I have to spend one day a week riding hills or doing hill climb simulating intervals. Won't that just be oodles of fun?
Thanks for the compliment.
Frank
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bendo
Viscount
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Post by bendo on Jul 1, 2015 1:31:26 GMT
Fun indeed. There's an old adage from the Audax world I believe: you should be riding every week in training the distance that you plan on covering in the ride itself. Your training is probably way more sophisticated than that, but it's good way for newbies like me to imagine the kind of training commitment required for long rides. So four imperial centuries every week! Where does someone get the TIME to do that much riding apart from anything else? b
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Post by triitout on Jul 6, 2015 3:00:30 GMT
Frank, interesting article about bike fit...yesterdays straight top tube vs todays more aggressive compact sloping top tube. A lot of good insight about the saddle to handlebar drop. bikeretrogrouch.blogspot.com/2013/10/changing-positions.html. Probably why I feel I can ride my Viscount with about a 1" or less drop all day even though I've got a 6-10 pound weight difference between the Trek Madone and the various Viscounts. The main modification I've made to my favorite Viscount riders (don't worry Jem, I haven't touched the Mojave GP ) is switching to "compact", short reach handlebars, negating the huge elephant ear originals where the brake levers end up having a huge drop from the saddle height. Wider bars also have helped with better breathing and more stability. My back thanks me when I'm on the Viscount! I think that "aero" just isn't as important below the speed most of us ride (or attempt to race at). I stopped using aerobars about 7 years ago because I just felt more comfortable and safer in a less aggressive position and the times were not significantly different. For pros at race speed I'm sure everything matters, just not so much for us mortals.  |
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Post by 54roadie on Jul 6, 2015 8:11:09 GMT
Bendo, WOW, no, I don't ride anywhere near that many miles. I put in two or three monster weeks if I can - last year I rode long throughout the Memorial Day holiday at the end of May and set a weekly mileage PB of 500+ miles. Not even close to that this year, weather would not cooperate. Several of the high mileage riders ride just three or four times weekly, one long solo ride, one long, very fast group ride, speed work, and when possible a short, high spin recovery ride. This year, I'm lucky to get 200 / week.
Michael, thanks for the link; it's a good read, quite insightful. You're right, at speeds below 25mph, the aero bars pretty much don't matter. But over the course of 24 hours, resting on them makes a world of difference. In 2014 my triceps and shoulders were so tired that I could not really hold onto the bars for the last two hours. Rode sitting up, no hands, except for corners. Can't go even marginally fast like that!
Your Madone is SIX pounds lighter than your Viscounts? My CF Defy is only about two plus change lighter than the Viscount, but the V has lighter wheels which helps close the perceived weight difference. With just the bullhorns, no extensions, there's about 1.5 lb difference, btw. It's the click shifting, close at hand, that I most want on my Viscount. It's almost 18 vs just over 20, although I have a B-17 on the Giant, so could drop half a pound or more pretty easily.
Thanks again,
Frank
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. How did you handle your nutritional needs?...gels, sports drinks, real food? 
