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Post by oldroadietehachapi on May 22, 2021 14:02:53 GMT
A couple of observations - It looks like the headset cups are still pressed onto your frame. That would add a little heft. Ditto the rear dropout adjusters. Also, in your photo of the top of the seat tube, the tube thickness looks substantially greater than on the Viscount. To be honest, I worry about the flimsy thickness of the Viscount seat tube, especially since I have one that cracked. Brian You are correct about the drop out screws; they do add a bit. My frame does not have headset cups installed. It looks like it does as Nervex pro lugs have a wide area in which the headset cups seat. This is a good way to tell the difference between real Nervex lugs and copies (see photo). I think Viscounts, being (fillet brazed) you see only thin tubing at the top of the seat post instead of a thick lug. On a few bikes, the lug determines the seatpost size, not the tubing. The attached tubing chart gives wall thickness for most tubing. The viscount tubing seems similar (anyone ever measure it?).
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Post by wheelson on May 22, 2021 18:54:54 GMT
I too could stand to lose some excess weight but a light bike is always a plus, especially when something goes wrong and you have to push/carry. And then there's always the climbing. It seems that there's always some sweet spot that makes a certain bike a pure pleasure to ride, whether it's bike weight, frame material, fork rake, bike fit, and so forth. Jan Heine calls this "planing" when the bike seems to be giving power back. I can't explain it, but I've felt it while riding my '74 Paramount on a rolling country road near me. That's when I say "why do I own another bike?". That was, of course, before I was diagnosed with Lambert-Viscount Syndrome. Best, John "w"
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rodh
Viscount
Posts: 122
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Post by rodh on May 22, 2021 21:20:34 GMT
"LVS" ... I recognise that! I've come down with a bad case ... incurable too, so I hear! Best, Rod
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Post by brianbutler on May 22, 2021 21:26:21 GMT
Hahaha, LVS!
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Post by brianbutler on May 22, 2021 21:37:34 GMT
I too could stand to lose some excess weight but a light bike is always a plus, especially when something goes wrong and you have to push/carry. And then there's always the climbing. It seems that there's always some sweet spot that makes a certain bike a pure pleasure to ride, whether it's bike weight, frame material, fork rake, bike fit, and so forth. Jan Heine calls this "planing" when the bike seems to be giving power back. I can't explain it, but I've felt it while riding my '74 Paramount on a rolling country road near me. That's when I say "why do I own another bike?". That was, of course, before I was diagnosed with Lambert-Viscount Syndrome. Best, John "w" The other day the extra weight on the touring bike provided some nice momentum. I could roll the dips and rises and it felt pretty good. I wonder what would be the best way to store up and smooth out energy delivery on a bike. A flywheel would be too heavy so maybe a spring of some kind. I would want something low-tech and mechanical, not an electrical system.
Brian
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Post by cusqueno on May 23, 2021 13:44:18 GMT
A couple of observations - It looks like the headset cups are still pressed onto your frame. That would add a little heft. Ditto the rear dropout adjusters. Also, in your photo of the top of the seat tube, the tube thickness looks substantially greater than on the Viscount. To be honest, I worry about the flimsy thickness of the Viscount seat tube, especially since I have one that cracked. Brian On one of my Viscounts the seat tube rusted through from the inside. The final break happened while I was riding - but not dangerous - just a bit baffling to work out where the odd noise was coming from.
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Post by wheelson on May 26, 2021 12:32:53 GMT
A couple of observations - It looks like the headset cups are still pressed onto your frame. That would add a little heft. Ditto the rear dropout adjusters. Also, in your photo of the top of the seat tube, the tube thickness looks substantially greater than on the Viscount. To be honest, I worry about the flimsy thickness of the Viscount seat tube, especially since I have one that cracked. Brian On one of my Viscounts the seat tube rusted through from the inside. The final break happened while I was riding - but not dangerous - just a bit baffling to work out where the odd noise was coming from. I think two things contribute to seat tube breakage at the bottom bracket. In the case of the fillet brazed frames, overheating of the tube can definitely cause this. This may also be exacerbated by the fact that there is no avenue for moisture from condensation or leakage past the seat post to exit the bottom bracket area, especially past the sealed bottom bracket bearings. Also, correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t the Viscount tubing thin straight gauge tubing? Reynolds 531 is double butted, with the seat tube thicker butt at the bb. I don’t think I’ve seen a 531 frame broken there, I have seen some later Schwinn Super Sport cracked but that was True Temper tubing and made in the startup Schwinn Mississippi plant (inexperienced builders?). Best, John (wheelson)
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Post by cusqueno on May 28, 2021 13:31:05 GMT
Jim, Very interesting chart comparing tubing. Thanks for posting that. I have been told - by Busaste (Steve), so I believe it's accurate, that the tubing used on Aerospace Viscounts was made by a small British company trading under the name Phoenix. But not Phoenix 101 tubing, but somnething (even) more obscure. And yes, the Viscount frames use straight gauge tubes. As the seat pins are 26.8mm in diameter, it would not appear to be very thin, compared with Reynolds 531 tube sets for instance, where seat pins are usually 27.2mm.
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Post by oldroadietehachapi on May 28, 2021 14:29:19 GMT
Jim, Very interesting chart comparing tubing. Thanks for posting that. I have been told - by Busaste (Steve), so I believe it's accurate, that the tubing used on Aerospace Viscounts was made by a small British company trading under the name Phoenix. But not Phoenix 101 tubing, but somnething (even) more obscure. And yes, the Viscount frames use straight gauge tubes. As the seat pins are 26.8mm in diameter, it would not appear to be very thin, compared with Reynolds 531 tube sets for instance, where seat pins are usually 27.2mm. I have similar bikes with Columbus SL and Aelle; as well as Reynolds 531 pro, 531 and 501 tubing. I find it interesting that when riding on the road, I cannot readily discern the difference. I think my Viscount and Tange Prestige bikes may have a bit smoother ride (maybe). I think the difference in feel (made by high quality tubing) to be insignificant when compared to the effect of tires. I do think high tensile frames feel less lively. As for aluminum and carbon frames, they are another story. Of course, some tubing purists would consider me an imperceptive dolt. This article is enlightening.
Ride Happy Jim
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Post by wheelson on May 28, 2021 15:15:42 GMT
Jim, Very interesting chart comparing tubing. Thanks for posting that. I have been told - by Busaste (Steve), so I believe it's accurate, that the tubing used on Aerospace Viscounts was made by a small British company trading under the name Phoenix. But not Phoenix 101 tubing, but somnething (even) more obscure. And yes, the Viscount frames use straight gauge tubes. As the seat pins are 26.8mm in diameter, it would not appear to be very thin, compared with Reynolds 531 tube sets for instance, where seat pins are usually 27.2mm. I believe you’re right about the tubing thickness. It’s my understanding that Reynolds 531 seat tubes have the thicker butt on only one end, usually built at the bottom bracket end. The lug by default forms the upper butt, although an external one. Some off the older bikes used Reynolds 531 straight gauge tubing. There’s a photo somewhere online of a gold Lambert inside right chainstay where the Reynolds logo is clearly visible. I would tend to believe that bike is straight gauge 531 as the seat post on Mrs.W’s lugged Lambert Professional uses a 28.8mm post. Best, John “wheelson”
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Post by wheelson on May 28, 2021 15:26:33 GMT
Jim, Very interesting chart comparing tubing. Thanks for posting that. I have been told - by Busaste (Steve), so I believe it's accurate, that the tubing used on Aerospace Viscounts was made by a small British company trading under the name Phoenix. But not Phoenix 101 tubing, but somnething (even) more obscure. And yes, the Viscount frames use straight gauge tubes. As the seat pins are 26.8mm in diameter, it would not appear to be very thin, compared with Reynolds 531 tube sets for instance, where seat pins are usually 27.2mm. I have similar bikes with Columbus SL and Aelle; as well as Reynolds 531 pro, 531 and 501 tubing. I find it interesting that when riding on the road, I cannot readily discern the difference. I think my Viscount and Tange Prestige bikes may have a bit smoother ride (maybe). I think the difference in feel (made by high quality tubing) to be insignificant when compared to the effect of tires. I do think high tensile frames feel less lively. As for aluminum and carbon frames, they are another story. Of course, some tubing purists would consider me an imperceptive dolt. This article is enlightening.
Ride Happy Jim
Jim, you’re certainly not a dolt! My Reynolds 531 frames have (to me) a very distinctive ride, my Columbus SP and Champion tubed bikes not so much. My “gas pipe” steel frames are still one step better than my aluminum Cannondale which can only be tamed by elastomer shock stem and seat post as well as big cushy tires. Best, John “wheelson”
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Post by oldroadietehachapi on May 28, 2021 16:03:01 GMT
Thanks John, I do feel a significant difference when comparing my aluminum frames (Cannondale 3.0 and Trek 7000 bonded) to steel; they seem to transmit more road vibration. I have a Specialized Allez Epoch that is surprisingly compliant; almost like steel, but lighter. I once had a Cannondale System Six Carbon bike. It transmitted vibration and the big hollow tubes drummed. It was very light, very quick, fast and newfangled. Since I am heavy, slow and oldfangled, I (of course) sold the beast. I do discern a slight difference in high end steel tubing, nevertheless, not much. I suppose if they all had exactly the same components, it would be more distinctive. To my insensitive senses, componentry and tires overwhelm the small differences in my steel frames. I can't comment on High Tensile or "gas Pipe" as I have not ridden one in a long while. I suppose I should refurbish my derelict Peugeot U08 to further my experience. So if not a dolt, I am at least imperceptive!
Ride Happy Jim
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Post by wheelson on May 30, 2021 16:28:48 GMT
Thanks John, I do feel a significant difference when comparing my aluminum frames (Cannondale 3.0 and Trek 7000 bonded) to steel; they seem to transmit more road vibration. I have a Specialized Allez Epoch that is surprisingly compliant; almost like steel, but lighter. I once had a Cannondale System Six Carbon bike. It transmitted vibration and the big hollow tubes drummed. It was very light, very quick, fast and newfangled. Since I am heavy, slow and oldfangled, I (of course) sold the beast. I do discern a slight difference in high end steel tubing, nevertheless, not much. I suppose if they all had exactly the same components, it would be more distinctive. To my insensitive senses, componentry and tires overwhelm the small differences in my steel frames. I can't comment on High Tensile or "gas Pipe" as I have not ridden one in a long while. I suppose I should refurbish my derelict Peugeot U08 to further my experience. So if not a dolt, I am at least imperceptive!
Ride Happy Jim
My Cannondale is a former H600 hybrid frame, almost always built as a drop bar road, touring, or gravel configuration. I think they must have used thicker tubing on the old hybrids and touring frames because they don’t seem very light but they are certainly stiff. I’m thinking I need to build up something lighter for flatland vacation trips - maybe a way to integrate an unused Viscount frame?! Best, John “wheelson”
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Post by oldroadietehachapi on May 30, 2021 18:18:43 GMT
" maybe a way to integrate an unused Viscount frame?!"
Great Idea!
Ride Happy Jim
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Post by dracco on May 31, 2021 18:57:40 GMT
cusqueno May 28, 2021 at 2:31pm said:
My recollection is that (somewhere in the marathon CTC thread) the Aerospace tubing is identified as "Phoenix 1027"
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Post by dracco on May 31, 2021 19:11:37 GMT
And just as an addendum, a swift bit of googling tirns up an ariel photograph of the The Phoenix Steel Tube Co Works in Swan Village, West Bromwich, in the "Britain from Above" website (https://www.britainfromabove.org.uk/en/image/EAW002077).
I can't readily find any precise specifications, but I bet that Busaste has these.
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