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Post by franco on Mar 12, 2021 21:07:40 GMT
So I’ve got three of these, the Trusty Folder I want to keep as is, besides that I’ve got a Triumph Traffic Master and a Raleigh Twenty. I know Sheldon Brown enjoyed modifying these bikes. Growing up riding BMX probably makes this conversion appealing, god only knows if I would ride it but it looks fun. Thoughts? Here is an example
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Post by brianbutler on Mar 12, 2021 22:01:57 GMT
Good question, Franco. They look cool converted or not. My objective would be getting the best riding position and ride characteristics for its intended use. If it is truly an adult size bike, it seems it would be good for paved bike trails or around town, maybe more but he three-speed limits the terrain I would want to tackle. I think the small wheels would be a problem on rough surfaces. This time of year around here you would be up to your hubs in potholes. The one you showed looks like a single speed, so definitely for flat trails or streets.
Brian
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Post by franco on Mar 12, 2021 22:18:16 GMT
Thanks Brian. From what I can gather BMX wheel hubs are designed for a singlespeed freewheel. We are on a 110 spacing in the dropouts, so at best a 5 speed freewheel would fit depending on the hub. I could spread the dropouts with cold setting of course but I’m intrigued to see what is possible before that is considered.
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robt
Viscount
Posts: 559
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Post by robt on Mar 12, 2021 22:52:43 GMT
Franco,
Don’t overlook the 112mmOLN rear hub used by Brompton on its 16” wheeled folders. The BWR (Brompton Wide Ratio) hub is three-speed as standard, and six-speed when fitted with two sprockets, giving a 302% range. All Bromptons have a chain tensioner to take up the slack when folded, and to contribute to the gear change action on six-speed models.
Kinetics in Glasgow convert Brompton rear triangles to run 135mmOLN Alfine and Rolhoff hubs, and sometimes have ‘pre-loved’ 112mm rear wheels available.
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Post by franco on Mar 13, 2021 18:24:15 GMT
Thanks Rob.
The 20” (406) wheel is the smallest that could be used I think. After doing a bit more research the Raleigh Twenty wheels are more closer to 21”, so when anything smaller is fitted it lowers the BB closer to the ground and could hinder pedal stroke especially when cornering. That includes BMX wheels which are a true 20”. I’ll have to have a look more into that before I start buying any parts.
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Post by sprockit on Mar 14, 2021 21:41:58 GMT
Said to be the 'Bike that saved Raleigh' in the seventies and eighties. They made 144,000 in 1977 alone, which is the thick end of 3000 a week!
I have three of these bikes: two Hercules Hunters, one single speed, one 3-speed, and a Triumph Twenty Traffic Master - and they are all blue.
Great fun to ride and oh so cool.
Some serious touring is done on these bikes. Look up 'Touring Twenties'.
Mods may be needed if you're near six feet tall.
Raleigh made some of these with 406 wheels, but most had 451 as standard. 406 gives a better range of tyre options.
Lots of info, ace mods and pictures in the Gallery on raleightwenty.webs.com
Am out on mine every day most weeks.
Sprockit
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Post by franco on Mar 14, 2021 22:33:48 GMT
Thanks Sprockit, I’ll check those links out. I have a red Triumph Traffic Master Twenty and an Orange Raleigh Twenty, not sure which to mod yet. The Triumph I use as is so probably be the Raleigh. Did you upgrade the seat post to alloy and longer length? I’m 6 foot so could do with one that goes a bit higher.
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Post by cusqueno on Mar 15, 2021 11:17:13 GMT
I have a Raleigh 20 folder and a Viscount Delta folder. Both unfortunately in bits at the moment.
If you do Face Book there are several groups that have lots of info about Raleigh 20s, pictures for inspiration and helpful members. I subscribe to 'Raleigh Twenty'; 'Raleigh Shoppers,and childrens bicycles uk' ; and 'Modified Small Wheelers Official'. (All the group names are exactly as they appear on FB.)
With regard to the wheel sizes, I think I'm right in saying that, for Raleigh 20s, 451 was the normal size in the UK, but US 20s usually came with 406s. 451 is less common if you are looking for alloy rims, I believe, but is used on pro BMX bikes IIRC. But Sheldon Brown's web pages can tell you.
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Post by franco on Mar 15, 2021 17:27:04 GMT
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Post by sprockit on Mar 21, 2021 19:38:51 GMT
All my Raleigh Twenties are bog standard, but I'm thinking of swapping the wheels to 406 on my main work bike 'cos I've had a vast number of visits from the puncture fairies!
I run a Kenda Small Block Eight on the rear wheel. They're good in the Pennine mud and snow but they get fragile as the tread wears off, and due to the small knobbly tread they also wear quickly. I'd like to try Schwalbe Marathons but they're not made in the 451 size.
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Post by franco on Mar 22, 2021 22:40:31 GMT
All my Raleigh Twenties are bog standard, but I'm thinking of swapping the wheels to 406 on my main work bike 'cos I've had a vast number of visits from the puncture fairies! I run a Kenda Small Block Eight on the rear wheel. They're good in the Pennine mud and snow but they get fragile as the tread wears off, and due to the small knobbly tread they also wear quickly. I'd like to try Schwalbe Marathons but they're not made in the 451 size. Thanks Sprockit. ‘The puncture fairies’
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Post by sprockit on Mar 28, 2021 19:19:12 GMT
It was in one of Velocipete's posts on this forum that I first heard of the puncture fairies, so Pete must take the credit for the original mention of them on here. He may know the origin of the term.
I do get lots of visits from them though.
My Triumph Twenty has done 180 miles of commuting in the last two weeks, plus a bit more during each day. I had one front tyre puncture two weeks ago tomorrow (Monday), but on one day last year I had a front tyre puncture one the way in, and a rear tyre puncture on the way home!
My longest commute on a Twenty has been 26 miles each way, and between them they do cover some ground!
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Post by franco on Mar 28, 2021 20:16:55 GMT
It was in one of Velocipete's posts on this forum that I first heard of the puncture fairies, so Pete must take the credit for the original mention of them on here. He may know the origin of the term. I do get lots of visits from them though. My Triumph Twenty has done 180 miles of commuting in the last two weeks, plus a bit more during each day. I had one front tyre puncture two weeks ago tomorrow (Monday), but on one day last year I had a front tyre puncture one the way in, and a rear tyre puncture on the way home! My longest commute on a Twenty has been 26 miles each way, and between them they do cover some ground! That’s great to read that they get so much use. Did you change the rear sprocket on yours to lower the gearing? I put a 22T on my Triumph 70688531-C596-4DB6-B831-56320C8CE483 by Franco_AC, on Flickr They’re addictive bikes aren’t they, you get one then want another, if I see another folder going cheap I’ll definitely pick it up. Especially if it’s a Raleigh Stowaway or Dawes Kingpin.
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Post by franco on Mar 28, 2021 20:28:33 GMT
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Post by sprockit on Mar 28, 2021 20:39:16 GMT
My two Hercules Hunters have the standard gearing - the 3-speed with a 15 tooth sprocket, and I've not counted the teeth on the single speed, but it does have the original chain with the half link.
I replaced the chain last year on the Triumph and put a 22 tooth sprocket on as an experiment, meaning to revert to the original 15 tooth one after I'd tried it. It's easier to try the 22 then revert to the 15 as it needs the chain shortening, rather than do it the other way round and have to lengthen the chain. With the 22 on I rode it non-stop up Blackstone Edge - A58 - near Littleborough, (Rochdale), which was good going for me. I know that if I'm able to do that I could easily do a non-stop climb of Cragg Vale and end up in the same place!
After my climb up Blackstone Edge I came back along the drains which fed the reservoirs and over the moors. Some of the mountain bikers up there were pretty surprised to see bloke riding a shopping bike across the moors!!
Yes, bikes are addictive, but I've no room for any more!
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Post by sprockit on Mar 28, 2021 20:46:11 GMT
Thanks for info Franco.
I'm just trying a Tioga Power Block on the back.
Dave Palk on the Raleigh Twenty forum said he's done 8000 commuter miles on a set of these.
I'll try the Grey Schwalbes on my spare work bike and see how I get on.
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Post by brianbutler on Mar 28, 2021 20:48:18 GMT
I am intrigued by these bikes and would like to have one, especially a folder, but they are hard to find over here. I have a couple of questions:
Do Raleigh Twenty's come in different frame sizes or just the one? Is the joint on the folding model solid enough? Here is one that is for sale ($165). Can anyone comment on what is shown in this photo? Why two dynohubs? Unfortunately it is the only photo available:
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Post by franco on Mar 28, 2021 21:03:34 GMT
My two Hercules Hunters have the standard gearing - the 3-speed with a 15 tooth sprocket, and I've not counted the teeth on the single speed, but it does have the original chain with the half link. I replaced the chain last year on the Triumph and put a 22 tooth sprocket on as an experiment, meaning to revert to the original 15 tooth one after I'd tried it. It's easier to try the 22 then revert to the 15 as it needs the chain shortening, rather than do it the other way round and have to lengthen the chain. With the 22 on I rode it non-stop up Blackstone Edge - A58 - near Littleborough, (Rochdale), which was good going for me. I know that if I'm able to do that I could easily do a non-stop climb of Cragg Vale and end up in the same place! After my climb up Blackstone Edge I came back along the drains which fed the reservoirs and over the moors. Some of the mountain bikers up there were pretty surprised to see bloke riding a shopping bike across the moors!! Yes, bikes are addictive, but I've no room for any more! Haha, that’s brilliant going across the moors on a Shopper, love stories like that! I get some funny looks around here like why is a bloke on a kids bike. The only other one I see about is a really old guy that rides around on a metallic silver Shopper wearing a flat cap. Apparently he’s in his 70’s and rides for miles. Legend. Had a look at those Tiogo tyres, interesting option. Checked all the links you and cusqueno posted up too, some great reading and pictures on them, much appreciated.
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Post by franco on Mar 28, 2021 21:11:35 GMT
I am intrigued by these bikes and would like to have one, especially a folder, but they are hard to find over here. I have a couple of questions:
Do Raleigh Twenty's come in different frame sizes or just the one? Is the joint on the folding model solid enough? Here is one that is for sale ($165). Can anyone comment on what is shown in this photo? Why two dynohubs? Unfortunately it is the only photo available:
I think the frames were one size Brian but longer seat posts and handlebar stems make them suitable for someone up to 6 feet tall. The joint on the folders seems solid for standard riding but not sure I’d take one on some heavy off-road activity. Not sure about the two dynohubs, I’m guessing one of the wheels was replaced at some point. Seems way overpriced, in the U.K. you’d expect one in mint condition for that money. It looks an older model with the twist grip shifter
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Post by sprockit on Mar 28, 2021 21:26:20 GMT
All the Raleigh Twenties were the same 17-inch frame size, and were produced between 1968 and 1984.
Interesting bike in the picture. It has the twistgrip shifter, and the 'Dynohubs' are drum brakes. 36 spoke wheels as well.
The folding mechanism is rock solid but makes the bike slightly heavier than the non-folding version.
There is no upper head tube bearing, but in its place is a nylon bush which damps the steering.
i certainly enjoy riding mine!
Hope this helps.
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Post by brianbutler on Mar 28, 2021 21:37:06 GMT
Thanks for the replies so far. I'll have to wait for a bargain, can't afford the ones currently offered:
Brian
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Post by franco on Mar 28, 2021 22:01:56 GMT
Well spotted on the drum brakes Sprockit, I missed the lack of lights.
Might be worth looking outside the box a bit Brian, other companies made similar models like Triumph, Hercules, Dawes, Elswick, Vindec, BSA and Universal. Some of them were made by Raleigh but rebranded so they could sell them in bike shops that didn’t stock Raleigh.
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Post by sprockit on Mar 28, 2021 22:49:10 GMT
Raleigh Twenties were sold under seven different brand names - Raleigh, BSA, Triumph, Sun, Phillips, Hercules and New Hudson.
There's a bloke on eBay selling electric conversions for £850, and if you scout around on the internet, there's even a YouTube video of a Twenty powered by a jet engine!!!
Versatile machines!
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Post by franco on Mar 28, 2021 22:56:10 GMT
Some of the Touring Twenties pictures are great. The logic of them being over engineered to carry shopping makes sense for touring as well.
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Post by brianbutler on Mar 29, 2021 0:13:18 GMT
Well spotted on the drum brakes Sprockit, I missed the lack of lights. Might be worth looking outside the box a bit Brian, other companies made similar models like Triumph, Hercules, Dawes, Elswick, Vindec, BSA and Universal. Some of them were made by Raleigh but rebranded so they could sell them in bike shops that didn’t stock Raleigh. Sprockit, ditto on spotting the drum brakes.
The only vintage ones I have ever seen here are Raleigh Twentys. I think the scarcity must be due to the history of bikes in the US. There was a brief period in the late 19th and early 20th century when adults used bikes, then cars took over. There were few adult bikes made from then until the 60's and mainly the early 70's bike boom, at which point everyone everyone wanted a 10-speed. Otherwise bikes were basically considered toys for kids. It is even difficult to find a 3-speed with a large frame.
There are some modern adult folding 20-inch bikes but I don't find them inspiring. The price point on these Chinese imports is too low to support a quality product in most cases. Schwinn makes one that is somewhat better but has a goofy curved frame and derailleur gears.
I'll keep looking.
Brian
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Post by franco on Mar 29, 2021 10:43:20 GMT
Well spotted on the drum brakes Sprockit, I missed the lack of lights. Might be worth looking outside the box a bit Brian, other companies made similar models like Triumph, Hercules, Dawes, Elswick, Vindec, BSA and Universal. Some of them were made by Raleigh but rebranded so they could sell them in bike shops that didn’t stock Raleigh. Sprockit, ditto on spotting the drum brakes.
The only vintage ones I have ever seen here are Raleigh Twentys. I think the scarcity must be due to the history of bikes in the US. There was a brief period in the late 19th and early 20th century when adults used bikes, then cars took over. There were few adult bikes made from then until the 60's and mainly the early 70's bike boom, at which point everyone everyone wanted a 10-speed. Otherwise bikes were basically considered toys for kids. It is even difficult to find a 3-speed with a large frame.
There are some modern adult folding 20-inch bikes but I don't find them inspiring. The price point on these Chinese imports is too low to support a quality product in most cases. Schwinn makes one that is somewhat better but has a goofy curved frame and derailleur gears.
I'll keep looking.
Brian
I see what you are saying Brian, I’m guessing a ‘Shopper’ bike would not have been a lot of use in most American cities as you need a car to get to retail parks. That’s how I saw Atlanta when I visited, completely different shopping culture to here, although we seem to be doing our best to be more Americanised whilst complaining about the amount of traffic at the same time. I wondered if there were any old Schwinn models, I know they did a few 3 Speeds. Good luck with the search.
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Post by sprockit on Mar 31, 2021 20:03:48 GMT
Those R20s really are expensive on the US eBay! Most in the UK average about £100, equivalent of say $120, although on of the R20 Forum members purchased one for £2.30 - that's under $3! I haven't looked at the prices since the Covid lockdown, but they're nowhere near as expensive as in the USA. The one in the picture above is highly modified - only the frame is original - and was used for a tour of Wales. Most of them are based on the folding frames, so the frame strength of the folding version is not an issue. There's an outfit in France re-conditioning Raleigh Twenties: mapage.noos.fr/ptis.trucs.sympas/VPBleu.htm
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Post by franco on Mar 31, 2021 20:41:23 GMT
I wish there was an affordable way of shipping to the USA, there’s still decent deals here. Picked up this Stowaway on Monday, mint condition, the seller on eBay sent me an offer with a big discount on his asking price because I was local and I just couldn’t pass on it. It’s a beauty. AF4E6CDD-B88E-45CE-A193-892EF69CBF8B by Franco_AC, on Flickr
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Post by brianbutler on Mar 31, 2021 20:55:39 GMT
Nice going, Franco. I want it. Maybe we can ship a full container load from the UK to the US on the Ever Given, or is the the Never Forgiven, I forget.
Brian
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Post by wheelson on Mar 31, 2021 20:56:14 GMT
I wish there was an affordable way of shipping to the USA, there’s still decent deals here. Picked up this Stowaway on Monday, mint condition, the seller on eBay sent me an offer with a big discount on his asking price because I was local and I just couldn’t pass on it. It’s a beauty. AF4E6CDD-B88E-45CE-A193-892EF69CBF8B by Franco_AC, on Flickr Franco, I wish there was an inexpensive and reliable way to ship to the USA as well. These bikes intrigue me. Best, John “wheelson”
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