bendo
Viscount
Posts: 538 
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Post by bendo on Aug 17, 2013 12:07:14 GMT
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Jem
Viscount
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Posts: 3,380
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Post by Jem on Aug 18, 2013 6:51:07 GMT
Oh my word!
Do we have a smiley symbol for drooling on here?(just looked, can't find one)
How many of these were made? Has anyone ever seen one 'in the wild'?
I think the term 'holy grail' can quite properly be used here....
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Post by utedeej on Sept 24, 2013 11:23:34 GMT
I just picked up one of these. I'm in Canberra, Australia . I don't have the original wheels but all the rest is the same with black Dura Ace and brushed satin finish. Would love to know the year of manufacture. I've got a heap of old 70s Bicycling mags and am trying to
find that ad in them. Will try and get some pics by weekend.
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Jem
Viscount
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Posts: 3,380
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Post by Jem on Sept 24, 2013 15:36:53 GMT
I just picked up one of these. I'm in Canberra, Australia . I don't have the original wheels but all the rest is the same with black Dura Ace and brushed satin finish. Would love to know the year of manufacture. I've got a heap of old 70s Bicycling mags and am trying to find that ad in them. Will try and get some pics by weekend. Wooooow, I'm speechless. We'd love to see pics... Please tell us the story behind your find too! |
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Post by utedeej on Sept 24, 2013 23:39:20 GMT
Managed to get a couple of pics this morning before work. It's a little too big for me unfortunately (I usually ride a 58/59cm c-c wheras this is a 24.5" which is about a 61), but think that i'll keep it still. It wasn't a bargain, but i bought it because i had always liked the Black Dura Ace, which I would love to put on an Orange Koga Miyata or Molteni Merckx one day. I didn't really need it but am a bit of a sucker for the brushed satin finish. I've got a full Shimano 600 arabesque groupset at home, so will probably swap the dura ace for that once i pull it apart and do a clean up. Will have to respoke both front and rear wheels too. It's got Milremo stem, bars and saddle - maybe seatpost too. Its got some campag pedals which aren't original obviously. |
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Post by utedeej on Sept 25, 2013 2:48:43 GMT
I'll try and take some better pics and put them up in the my bikes section later as well.
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Post by triitout on Sept 25, 2013 3:00:06 GMT
Wow, looks just like the Bendo's spec sheet photos with one strange (probably not for Viscount) twist. Largest spec'd size is a 23 1/2 on the brochure so where and when did the 24 1/2" join the lineup?? Hmm.
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Post by utedeej on Sept 25, 2013 3:10:02 GMT
I'm pretty sure it is a 23 1/2. It is uncomfortably close to where it shouldn't be and i normaly ride a 58/59.
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bendo
Viscount
Posts: 538
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Post by bendo on Sept 25, 2013 7:18:16 GMT
Managed to get a couple of pics this morning before work. It's a little too big for me unfortunately (I usually ride a 58/59cm c-c wheras this is a 24.5" which is about a 61), but think that i'll keep it still. It wasn't a bargain, but i bought it because i had always liked the Black Dura Ace, which I would love to put on an Orange Koga Miyata or Molteni Merckx one day. I didn't really need it but am a bit of a sucker for the brushed satin finish. I've got a full Shimano 600 arabesque groupset at home, so will probably swap the dura ace for that once i pull it apart and do a clean up. Will have to respoke both front and rear wheels too. It's got Milremo stem, bars and saddle - maybe seatpost too. Its got some campag pedals which aren't original obviously. Oh please don't swap out the parts! You have the rarest and most desirable of all Viscounts. Any old idiot can have a Merckx or a Miyata, they're a dime a dozen compared to one of these. Put it this way, you're the first person in the history of the internets (and all its searching power) who has ever even seen a black Dura Ace Viscount race bike. Question: what kind of bottom-bracket does it have? Is it a standard threaded cup-and-cone job with serviceable bearings, or a Viscount-style, press-fit sealed bearing kind? More questions: how recently did you get it? Where from? and how much did you pay? Did you get any of the bike's history from the previous owner? Inquiring minds want to know! b  |
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bendo
Viscount
Posts: 538
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Post by bendo on Sept 25, 2013 7:18:57 GMT
I'm kind of jealous that this bike turned up in Oz after all that! b
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Post by utedeej on Sept 25, 2013 8:43:09 GMT
I did feel kind of bad saying that i'd swap out the parts, especially in this forum! Those other frames are a long way away anyway, and when you put it that way, i gues it does seem a little bit like taking a hacksaw to the braze ons to turn a colnago into a fixie:)
Anyway, It has the press fit bottom bracket. I wish i had the original black dura ace hubs for it, but will look out for them i guess. Always happy for you to have a look if you ever get to Canberra too. I picked it up from a guy who has some lovely italian bikes. I bought it with a group of stuff (campy cranks and rims)wasn't a bargain, but a fair price i think. I got it just last week here in Canberra. I don't think he was the original owner, but next time i see him will ask if he recalls any history.
It has Milremo stem, bars and saddle. Dura Ace Brakes and TRansmission. Dura Ace cable clips i think and the dura ace guides for the derailleur cables. I don't think there is any branding on the seatpost. Mavic red label 27" rims with 1 1/4 tyres in still quite good nick. Standard 70s shimano high flange hubs.
I'll just keep flicking through the Bicycling mags to see if i can find any more ads. If i find something not on here i'll scan and post up.
Does anyone have any idea of what kind of year these were made/came out?
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bendo
Viscount
Posts: 538
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Post by bendo on Sept 25, 2013 10:16:16 GMT
I'm thinking mid rather than early or late 70s. Velobase dates the Shimano Crane black derailleur at 1975-8. Can you ask your man if he has another one lying around? 57cm frame if possible? Ta!
b
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Post by utedeej on Sept 25, 2013 10:25:43 GMT
Now that i know what im looking for, always happy to keep an eye out. The more sets of eyes you have looking, the better your chance of getting lucky.  I'm heading off on holidays for a couple of weeks early next week, but when i get back I'll look through all my mags for articles I could scan and post up. |
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bendo
Viscount
Posts: 538
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Post by bendo on Sept 25, 2013 13:00:10 GMT
Just noticed the braze-ons for the bottle cage. No other Aerospace frame that I know of had those, they're unique to this "race bike". Another thing, you'll never get 700c wheels onto that frame without changing the brakes. The 1st gen DA side-pulls only just reach the rim of a 27" (ISO630) wheel, and only work at the front with the original aluminium fork. Chromoly forks have too much clearance. b PS - The hacksaw-to-a-Colnago analogy is a good one! But then again, there are a lot more of those around, so I wouldn't shed as many tears if you did that! |
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Post by utedeej on Sept 26, 2013 0:16:40 GMT
The braze ons for the bottle cage and the ones in the catalogue picture above are the same. I had assumed that there was some weird spacer in there. I'll try and date the DA as well to see if i can get an approximate year for the bike
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Post by Stella on Mar 25, 2014 12:31:18 GMT
Just seen this post. Strange. Guess I'm still not used to navigating this forum. Since it's all about the Durace: I've checked my Pro yesterday, it has a Durace front mech. And the Crane RD. :-)
Quite a long shot from your beauty, Utedeej.
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bendo
Viscount
Posts: 538
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Post by bendo on Mar 25, 2014 13:34:02 GMT
That's quite unusual Stella. Most Pros seemed to come with the Titlist (later known as 600/Ultegra) front mech and only the Crane (DA) rear. b
PS - Speaking of old Shimano nomenclature, I only found out the other day that 105 is 'descended' from Golden Arrow.
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Post by Stella on Mar 25, 2014 22:34:52 GMT
Thanks, Bendo. The Pro also came with the TA/SR chain ring. Can't remember which one, to be honest. But not with the porthole chain ring. According to Steve it's 100% original, although the fork's colour doesn't match the frame 100%. All a bit strange.
Golden Arrow ... why does it ring a bell? Built a wheel around a 105 recently. Smooth hubs, but ugly as hell.
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bendo
Viscount
Posts: 538
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Post by bendo on Mar 26, 2014 8:32:36 GMT
105 has long been the entry-level-serious groupset for roadies. Golden Arrow OTOH is lovely, as in 600 Arabesque lovely.
b
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Post by Stella on Mar 26, 2014 17:12:03 GMT
I looked at a few pictures yesterday. Lovely hubs (in silver). I built a wheel around an anodised modern one. Okay if you're riding a modern machine.
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Post by bowie on May 21, 2017 10:04:01 GMT
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Jem
Viscount
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Posts: 3,380
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Post by Jem on May 21, 2017 12:41:10 GMT
That's neat! Many thanks... |
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rodh
Viscount
Posts: 118
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Post by rodh on Jan 5, 2021 1:54:13 GMT
I just noticed Utedeej mentioned he found Mavic Red Label wheels on his Supa ...
I also have these (on Lambert hubs) so I've tried to find out more about them.
Mine're dated 1974, so slightly earlier than Module-E's that Mavic are known for.
They're still hooked rims, like the module E (which allows 90psi or higher tyres),
and they're 630-22, with eyelets (i.e. like the Module 3, touring wheels) but they
use single wall consruction!
I've see a flyer suggesting these are Mavic's "717" ("demountable", 510g) but I'm
not sure. Is anyone an expert on 1970's Mavic clinchers, or have their catalogues?
Velobase doesn't even list them, and their "Module xx" photos are all muddled up.
Any insight would be much appreciated ...
Happy New Year!
Rod
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Post by wheelson on Jan 5, 2021 14:46:14 GMT
I currently have three sets of wheels for Lambert/Viscount built: First is a set built with Viscount hubs and Araya rims (hook bead), with Panaracer Pasela 27 x 1 3/8 wire bead. Second is an original set built with Viscount hubs and Birmalux "no hook" rims - obviously will require a wire bead tire. These wheels also have the weathered gray galvanized spokes, unlike some rusty ones I've seen on Lambert/Viscount wheels. Third is my first and only attempt at sewups (sprint) wheels for my "pseudo-Supa": black Viscount hubs built on a pair of Birmalux sprint rims. This should be interesting since the Birmalux rims don't seem the best choice strength-wise, but "cool factor" none the less. These wheels, as well as the others, can be swapped around between my "unknown" Viscount and my Aerospace.
Best,
John "wheelson"
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rodh
Viscount
Posts: 118
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Post by rodh on Jan 6, 2021 10:48:03 GMT
Thanks John ... so no Mavic's at all in your peleton I wondered if these "717" rims were added by the dealer or owner, but they are the right age for the Lambert hubs (1974), so seem like original fit. Does anyone else know of Mavic's being supplied on Lamberts/Viscounts? Would be good to get technical info on these, or the 1974 Mavic catalog ... HNY all. Rod |
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Post by wheelson on Jan 6, 2021 13:56:33 GMT
Well, I couldn't say NO Mavic's in my peloton, I do have them on several bikes including my '90s Specialized Allez. A real pain to mount tires on, I might add.
As far as the Mavic rims on Lamberts/Viscounts as OEM, that would be a tough call. The L/V specs are not very specific as to rim or tire brands. I've searched through a lot of photos trying to fit up my L/V's and I've never seen a Mavic clincher that would look like original BUT then again I've never, ever seen a L/V frame like my brushed chrome "pseudo Supa" (without water bottle braze-ons and with seat mast clamp ears instead of a seat mast clamp).
Another observation that may account for odd items showing up as OEM: In mid 1974 I was just returning to the bike shop after a 4 year stint in the U.S.Army. Remember, 1973-1974 were the years of a worldwide energy crisis and a bike boom in the U.S. Bike manufacturers everywhere were scrambling to meet production and many bikes drifted off spec. Since many of the L/V's were intended for the American market, no doubt this was an issue as well.
I know this isn't answering your question. Are you a member of the Classic Rendezvous list? I know several members here are and I also know that several members of the CR were dealers of L/V's and one was involved with receiving massive amounts of bikes and components during the recall. I'll be happy to post your question over on CR if you like.
Best,
John "wheelson"
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Post by wheelson on Jan 6, 2021 14:07:23 GMT
Another note, since the Supa spec sheet lists sewup (sprint) rims as standard equipment, I would tend to think that the Mavic rims were a dealer installed option. That certainly was the case of sewup-equipped bikes in the USA during that time frame. Some of the USA bikes (Schwinn Paramount) could be ordered in various configurations but with many of the imports, the US rider was unfamiliar with sewups and were changed out in the bike shop at time of purchase. Some weren't changed out and, when the energy crisis was over or when the first sewup flat occurred, the bike was hung up in the garage and became the barely ridden "garage queen" that shows up on eBay these days!
Best,
J "w"
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rodh
Viscount
Posts: 118
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Post by rodh on Jan 6, 2021 19:42:45 GMT
Thanks John, I'm not on CR, but asking a question for any info on Mavic red label "717" rims wouldn't hurt. They seem to be tbe fore-runner of the Module 3 (ie, 22mm, 510g, single eyelet) but single wall rather than double. So far I've found Mavic's 1974 flyer from Velo Pages, and the Fiamme Cyclopedia page from Rennrad-news. I'm really none the wiser if these are weak/strong, worth restoring/keeping, or need special care in some way. Thanks again. Rod |
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