bendo
Viscount
Posts: 538 
|
Post by bendo on Jan 26, 2017 5:24:05 GMT
My new bike is finally complete. Sadly it's not a Viscount! It's a brand new custom bike from Japan, made by a company called "Toei". They are famous amongst builders of touring bikes. They make bikes after the French tradition of Rene Here, Jo Routens and Alex Singer. The English equivalent would be Jack Taylor. But whereas English touring bikes use 700c or 27" wheels, and tend to carry the load on the back of the bike, the French style is to use bigger tyres (demi-ballon) on smaller rims (650b, now enjoying a resurgence in the MTB world and lately called 26.5") with an overall similar rolling diameter to 700c, and to carry the load predominantly over the front wheel. Like all true touring bikes, randonneurs have racks and mudguards that are integral to the frame, using precisely aligned braze-ons, not clamped, strapped or cable-tied on as an afterthought. My new bike also has a hub dynamo and LED lighting, one of the few real improvements in touring bikes in the last 50 years. All the wiring is hidden inside the frame and forks. Everything else is pretty much as would have been when Toei first started making bikes inspired by the French in the post war years. I'll add some more pics later.  20170119_065113 by 弁慶, on Flickr |
|
|
|
Post by oldroadietehachapi on Jan 26, 2017 6:42:02 GMT
Nice bike! I just purchased a set of fenders (mud guards to some) like those for one of my bikes. We are having a wet winter and I need at least one bike suited for wet weather.
Cheers
Jim
|
|
bendo
Viscount
Posts: 538
|
Post by bendo on Jan 26, 2017 13:18:15 GMT
Hey Jim, are they aluminium? What brand? Most mudguards* for road bikes these days are either plastic or those awful "ass-savers" which are almost as bad as the old 'shortie' mudguards of the 70s. How do yours attach? Post pics please! I'm a bit of a mudguard nerd, having mounted them on four different bikes, each time requiring careful measuring and drilling. Three pairs were Honjo and one pair were Gilles Berthoud. b
PS - *Interestingly you can tell how long someone has been interested in bikes in Australia by whether they say 'mudguard' or 'fender'. Those who have only been into bikes this century usually refer to them as fenders because their bicycle knowledge is mostly gleaned from the internet. The Japanese have borrowed most of their bicycle terminology from English, but they say "gardo" for mudguards and "endo" for dropouts. Their pronunciation of French names however is more French than English (weird!), e.g. "Sanpurekksu" for Simplex and "Sanzhe" for Singer.
|
|
bendo
Viscount
Posts: 538
|
Post by bendo on Jan 26, 2017 14:05:31 GMT
Here are some pics of the Toei workshop. There are three experienced guys and one young guy who looks apprentice age. Yamada san is the guy who take your order, but then he's straight back onto brazing frames. Between them they make two frames/bikes a week which is a cracking pace according to my mates in the biz here in Aus. I think they might make the odd tandem now and again, but their repertoire is limited. Customisation within limits. Only Kaisei chromoly tubing. No disc brakes. No sloping top tubes. No MTBs. No track bikes. Then again they have done all that stuff. Perhaps repeat customers get more leeway. There is a Toei Owners' Club in Japan and they seem pretty big and pretty well-heeled to be honest. Not so much because the frames cost a lot but the complete builds they do with all NOS parts can be eye-watering (new Ideale leather saddle with duralumin rails? 1000 bucks if you can find one!)  DSCF3874 by 弁慶, on Flickr  DSCF3881 by 弁慶, on Flickr Lots, and lots of Honjo mudguards waiting to go on new bikes. I asked them if they would sell me a pair to take home and mount myself and they said, "Hmmm, actually no." !  DSCF3883 by 弁慶, on Flickr Finished frames waiting to go to customers.  DSCF3889 by 弁慶, on Flickr One of their classic old bikes, perhaps a museum piece, all shrink wrapped. You can see the the front and rear racks for low-rider panniers, which means this one's probably a 'campeur'. Heavier gauge tubing for carrying bigger loads. Also an old school incandescent-globe headlight and tailight with bottle dynamo running on the rear rim.  DSCF3893 by 弁慶, on Flickr Beautiful chrome lugs. Did I say there weren't many options? That's a pretty nice one!  DSCF3890 by 弁慶, on Flickr Kero heater. How they keep the workshop warm in winter. Last year there was snow in Tokyo in November, so it does get cold!  DSCF3897 by 弁慶, on Flickr My deposit receipt for JPY10,000 and part of the job-sheet. All in Japanese.  DSCF3894 by 弁慶, on Flickr Checking the clearance on a new set of forks with a dummy wheel. The plate bolted to the rim would be the width of the tyre+mudguard combination the customer requested, usually for 38mm or 42mm wide tyres.  DSCF3888 by 弁慶, on Flickr I love this pic! It shows the ordering process: paint chart, vernier calipers, frame diagrams, my Japanese-English dictionary, all on a tiny laminex coffee table in a corner of the workshop. These are the guys who make the Japanese Imperial family's bikes!  DSCF3886 by 弁慶, on Flickr The middle one, "ocean green". I spent about 3 seconds deciding. Happily, I was spot on. Or at least I think so!  DSCF3882 by 弁慶, on Flickr ANother shrink-wrapped museum-piece, sans tyres. Bottle dynamo, front and rear racks, Cyclo rear derailleur and lever operated Toei front derailleur. Interesting are the pretty ho-hum, nothing special Sugino Maxy crankset. Dates this bike to the Viscount era!  DSCF3878 by 弁慶, on Flickr Finished frames waiting for their forks.  DSCF3877 by 弁慶, on Flickr Finished frame with lots of flux on the down tube where the shifter bosses have just been brazed.  DSCF3876 by 弁慶, on Flickr Lots of finished frames waiting to go to the painters.  DSCF3873 by 弁慶, on Flickr Yamada-san brazing the rear brake bosses for a centrepull brake. You can tell because cantilever bosses would be further from the brake bridge.  This is their book. It's a big coffee table book of all their bikes. It's pretty nice.  See, they do tandems sometimes. And pull-apart ones at that.  My favourite piece of Toei virtuosity: the spoked chainwheel. Just because they can. |
|
bendo
Viscount
Posts: 538
|
Post by bendo on Jan 26, 2017 14:45:24 GMT
And here are some better pics of my bike. Click on the one below for zoom.  20170119_070040 by 弁慶, on Flickr It is fillet-brazed and 57 x 57cm, exactly the same as my Viscounts! Lots of people have looked at the frame then looked at me and said, "that bike's too big for you!". Mainly I think because there's not the usual amount of seatpost sticking out. Some other specs: Suntour Cyclone GT 2nd gen derailleurs, Simplex retrofriction shifters, Mafac levers and Raid calipers. Stronglight 49D crankset with TA 46-28 chainrings. Suntour Pro Compe Ultra 6 speed 14-30t freewheel, Velocity rims, Son 28 Dynamo front hub, Specialised sealed bearing rear hub, vintage Lyotard touring pedals, Nitto Randonneur bars, Gilles Berthoud front bag, Honjo 62mm wide hammered-finish mudguards, Ideale TB92 "Diagonale" saddle, Nitto s83 seatpost, Compass LED tailight, Son Edelux headlight, Grand Bois Hetre red 650x42B tyres, Tange "Rinko" needle-bearing headset, internal cable routing for rear brake, Kaisei 019 and 017 (0.7-0.3-0.7) double butted tubing, vintage Tornade aluminium pump.  20170117_085023 by 弁慶, on Flickr One of my favourite views: the seat cluster with the wraparound stays, the rear light mounted in the seat tube, the Rene Herse-style straddle wheel, the pump on the left stay, the mudguards...  20170117_084933 by 弁慶, on Flickr The other end. You can see the fillet-brazed head tube and also the dynamo front hub. The wiring for the lights travels up the inside of the right fork blade.  IMG_20170124_074205 by 弁慶, on Flickr Another shot of the rear end, out for a ride. Hope you enjoyed these pics, those of you still awake.  b |
|
|
|
Post by oldroadietehachapi on Jan 27, 2017 1:07:12 GMT
Hey Jim, are they aluminium? What brand? Most mudguards* for road bikes these days are either plastic or those awful "ass-savers" which are almost as bad as the old 'shortie' mudguards of the 70s. How do yours attach? Post pics please! I'm a bit of a mudguard nerd, having mounted them on four different bikes, each time requiring careful measuring and drilling. Three pairs were Honjo and one pair were Gilles Berthoud. b PS - *Interestingly you can tell how long someone has been interested in bikes in Australia by whether they say 'mudguard' or 'fender'. Those who have only been into bikes this century usually refer to them as fenders because their bicycle knowledge is mostly gleaned from the internet. The Japanese have borrowed most of their bicycle terminology from English, but they say "gardo" for mudguards and "endo" for dropouts. Their pronunciation of French names however is more French than English (weird!), e.g. "Sanpurekksu" for Simplex and "Sanzhe" for Singer. Hi Bendo! This is my first set of fenders since I was a kid (long long ago). They are polished Aluminum with hand hammered finish; very stylish www.ebay.com/itm/ORIGIN8-FENDERS-Classique-Sport-Hammered-Alloy-Fenders-Pair-Hybrid-700c-x-45mm-A-/401252680349?hash=item5d6c86029d:g:nMgAAOSw-0xYhWaiAttachment, the bike has eyelets, as for the fenders, I will find out when they arrive. Any helpful hints as to attachment are welcome. Cheers Jim |
|
|
|
Post by kickstandman on Jan 27, 2017 2:42:30 GMT
Ocean green, very nice.
I do like the way they coat these new bikes, provided it's a nice color. I saw some fellow out with a nice forest green type of paint job, it looks like the paint is on there thick but I don't know for certain.
|
|
bendo
Viscount
Posts: 538
|
Post by bendo on Jan 27, 2017 4:18:40 GMT
Ocean green, very nice. I do like the way they coat these new bikes, provided it's a nice color. I saw some fellow out with a nice forest green type of paint job, it looks like the paint is on there thick but I don't know for certain. Thanks! Yes the people Toei get to do their paint are bloody good. It's enamel, not powercoat. They even gave me a little pot of touch-up paint for future dings and scratches. b |
|
bendo
Viscount
Posts: 538
|
Post by bendo on Jan 27, 2017 4:26:16 GMT
Happy to help out Jim. If the mudguards are already drilled, then it's a fairly straightforward process, provided your bike's geometry a clearances are co-operative. If not, then it takes a little longer, but the advantage is you get to drill the mount holes in exactly the right places. Eyelets=good. The other challenge spots are attaching to the brake bridge and chain stay, and under the fork crown. However there are plenty of products out there now to help a wide range of attachment problems. b |
|
bendo
Viscount
Posts: 538
|
Post by bendo on Jan 27, 2017 4:38:41 GMT
Ah, I just checked the link you posted Jim. They look really nice! Looks like you get your stays already attached and your fork crown bolt (a 'daruma' probably) already in place. So that saves you some time. But it looks like there's no hardware for the rear mudguard. True touring frames have an M6 bolt brazed into the underside of the brake bridge, pointing downwards. Otherwise it's pretty easy to attach a sliding clip that is designed to hold the mudguard, that also has a drilled tab that you mount your brake bolt through, holding it to the bridge. An SKS mudguard clip for the chain stay attachment solves that problem. Little tip from experience, don't mount the rear mudguard so that any protrudes below the chain stay bridge, IF you have horizontal dropouts, or if clearances are tight all over. It will mean that you have to fully deflate your tyre any time you want to remove your rear wheel.
Well-fitted mudguards that follow the line of the tyre precisely have a beautiful way of 'disappearing' visually. Just last year one of my work colleagues who also commutes was bemoaning her lack of mudguards in mad weather. SHe looked at my Victor (which also has hammered, full mudguards) and said: "you'll be needing some too won't you." I had to point out to her that those silver arcs around the wheels were, in fact, mudguards! She felt like a bit of an idiot, but was a great illustration of how they aren't as noticeable as you'd think. Weight-wise as well. b
|
|
|
|
Post by oldroadietehachapi on Jan 27, 2017 5:40:07 GMT
Bendo, thanks for the mounting tips; I will find them helpful. The bike is a 1976 carabella www.pedalroom.com/bike/1976-carabela-28562 Of all my bikes, it has the most clearance for fenders (Fenders in the states, even in the old days; mud guards for my more civilized friends). The frame lacks brazeons of any kind, and certainly lacks those found on nice new touring frames. To make it more useful, I am regearing it with a Sugino Super Maxy triple crank, a long cage Suntour Vx GT derailleur and a 14-34 freewheel. I am adding a hitch to pull a special bike trailer carrying my kayak. Hence the really short gearing. All the Best Jim |
|
bendo
Viscount
Posts: 538
|
Post by bendo on Jan 27, 2017 5:57:31 GMT
What a beautiful bike! Totally agree with your choice of components too. B
|
|
|
|
Post by kickstandman on Jan 28, 2017 2:51:05 GMT
Nice bike and eventually, I'll add in a comment over at pedal room.
Pulling a kayak on a bike, I've certainly seen it done and have wanted to do that.
|
|
|
|
Post by oldroadietehachapi on Jan 28, 2017 5:53:28 GMT
Thanks guys, I think the fenders will make it pop! I will post updated pictures on Pedal Room (maybe a week or so) when I have finished the refit.
I want to say again that Bendo's Toei is gorgeous! Bendo, you must have plans to tour that nice bike; keep us posted. I have not yet seen a Toei on these shores; I will be watching.
Cheers
Jim
|
|
|
|
Post by triitout on Jan 28, 2017 13:23:00 GMT
Bendo, great bike! So classic and old world style. Great choice on the paint color and fenders. Many happy miles on it!
|
|
Jem
Viscount
?
Posts: 3,388
|
Post by Jem on Jan 29, 2017 15:34:04 GMT
Bendo, I love the workshop photos, very much capture the atmosphere of a master craftsman at work. Great looking bike too, it looks built to last a good long while.
|
|
b
